Looking for a Relay Coil for Bally ABC Deluxe Shuffle Bowler

Bretterson

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Hi there. I have a side-hustle working on pinball machines, but occasional get asked to look at bowlers. I have a client with a Bally ABC Deluxe shuffle bowler. It seems like the coin relay is bad in the ten relay bank. The part number is C-2342-110, which is no longer available. According to the wrapper on the coil, the label behind the relay, and the manual I found online, it's a 2400 ohm coil (yes, I know it sounds crazy and is probably wrong).

I contacted Pinball Resource for a possible substitute. They have a copy of the manual that claims it to be a 740 ohm coil and recommended a 400 ohm part as a replacement. I'm fine with this if it will work, but I don't know if could cause issues.
  1. Does anyone here have this game and able to test the resistance of the coil?
  2. How bad could it be to use the 400 ohm coil if the original really is 2400 ohms? I'm not sure what kind of damage is possible.
I asked in a Facebook group but I only got a couple responses saying things like, "Pinball Resource info is gospel/as good as it gets." That's all well and good, I'm not arguing, I just want to get it right (particularly since the game is nearly an hour away).

It also needs a coil stop for one of the relay bank reset coils and I couldn't find that part number in the manual, does anyone know what stop I'd need for coil E-184-106?

This is the manual I've been looking at, the relay in question is on page 28 of the file (actual page number 356): https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-arcade/Bally-ABC-Bowler-Congress-Bowler-Manual.pdf
 
For a bowler, it depends on the application. A hold coil is different than a pin release coil. The pin release coil is momentary and can be fudged. Especially for home use.
 
And PBR is the gold standard for this type of thing. If they say it works, it probably does.

It will cost you some money, but what is your choice here?

I guess you could "unwind" and "re-wind the coil" by hand.
 
For a bowler, it depends on the application. A hold coil is different than a pin release coil. The pin release coil is momentary and can be fudged. Especially for home use.
It's the coin relay that's triggered when a coin is inserted (in this case it's been connected to the start button instead). Sounds like I could get away with it then?
And PBR is the gold standard for this type of thing. If they say it works, it probably does.

It will cost you some money, but what is your choice here?

I guess you could "unwind" and "re-wind the coil" by hand.
I understand their reputation, my concern is that the copy of the manual they have seems to be different from what's on the part as well as in the manual I've been using.

I'm not worried about the money, it's cheap and I'll be charging for it anyway, I care about whether it could cause any damage to the game and avoiding an additional two hour roundtrip.

I've never wound a coil and don't know what's involved, but this probably isn't a good time to experiment.

PS: The Tick was great.
 
That schematic is for the "Congress". Parts in a similar era are quite similar. Though not exact. If PBR has the proper schematic, buy it from him or take his advice.
 
Could you show picture, I have lots of coils unfortunately numbers have faded. Found one can see a 23 on it.
 
It's the coin relay that's triggered when a coin is inserted (in this case it's been connected to the start button instead). Sounds like I could get away with it then?

I understand their reputation, my concern is that the copy of the manual they have seems to be different from what's on the part as well as in the manual I've been using.

I'm not worried about the money, it's cheap and I'll be charging for it anyway, I care about whether it could cause any damage to the game and avoiding an additional two hour roundtrip.

I've never wound a coil and don't know what's involved, but this probably isn't a good time to experiment.

PS: The Tick was great.
Re: The Tick. Still is, the latest live action series was the bomb.

The resistance doesn't bother me at all. The key is does it work?

Remember, some games have multiple versions. They start out with something, and it's found when they run out of that, another coil they have works fine, so they use it and rev the manual to reflect that.

Granted, it isn't a pinball machine, but my Atari Asteroids has 7 revs of the manuals out there. 7.
 
That schematic is for the "Congress". Parts in a similar era are quite similar. Though not exact. If PBR has the proper schematic, buy it from him or take his advice.
Sure, but the label on the coil, as well as the label in the game behind the coil, both say 2400 ohms, which matches the linked manual. Again, I agree 2400 seems bonkers, but I couldn't test resistance since it failed continuity. I didn't actually ask what manual they were looking at.

Interestingly, your comment made me look at the pictures they sent from the copy they have and I happened to notice one wire color is different between the two (blue in the one I linked, brown in the PBR copy). I checked the (bad) picture of the coil I found on my phone to attach it for Jb1215 and the wire is brown. So now it seems like the game has the relay coil from one manual and the wire color of another 🤦‍♂️
Could you show picture, I have lots of coils unfortunately numbers have faded. Found one can see a 23 on it.
Yeah, I'll attach one, but unfortunately you can't see the label so it isn't very useful; smart of me. I can ask the owner to try to send me one.
IMG_0090.jpg
Re: The Tick. Still is, the latest live action series was the bomb.

The resistance doesn't bother me at all. The key is does it work?

Remember, some games have multiple versions. They start out with something, and it's found when they run out of that, another coil they have works fine, so they use it and rev the manual to reflect that.

Granted, it isn't a pinball machine, but my Atari Asteroids has 7 revs of the manuals out there. 7.
Once upon a time a friend and I were at a friend's place in Highlands, NJ. It was like a day or two before Thanksgiving. He was trying to get us out the door because traffic, but I wanted to finish the episode of the Tick I was watching on my computer. We got stuck in some of the traffic.

I definitely understand the possibility of revision changes. If the resistance isn't a concern then I'm happy to try it! That's really what I wanted to know. I wasn't looking for a guarantee that it will work, just some reassurance that it's unlikely to cause issues.

--------

Also forgot I had a picture of the coil I need a coil stop for. Appears it's actually E-184-123. I'm guessing I'll just need to bring a few different ones to try, but if someone knows what's correct then (y)
IMG_0091.jpg
 
Why do you think the coil is bad?

Generally when they fail, they burn the paper off. Did you check the coil wires to the main wires? Sometime those crack.
 
Why do you think the coil is bad?

Generally when they fail, they burn the paper off. Did you check the coil wires to the main wires? Sometime those crack.
Right, but that's unlikely to be the case if the winding broke.
The original report was that occasionally it would start and play fine but it was very inconsistent. If it did start and he was able to play a game, he was unable to start a new one when it ended. I think I checked continuity of the wires to the coil, but can't recall for sure at this point. I know I tested continuity of the coil (while installed) and it failed, which is what lead me to believe it was bad. The intermittent nature seems to fit with a broken wire that is still barely touching.
 
Right, but that's unlikely to be the case if the winding broke.
The original report was that occasionally it would start and play fine but it was very inconsistent. If it did start and he was able to play a game, he was unable to start a new one when it ended. I think I checked continuity of the wires to the coil, but can't recall for sure at this point. I know I tested continuity of the coil (while installed) and it failed, which is what lead me to believe it was bad. The intermittent nature seems to fit with a broken wire that is still barely touching.
Or a cold solder joint.
 
Coil I have definitely not that. I'll check my parts again.
 
Or a cold solder joint.
Yeah that's a possibility. I highly doubt I thought to check for that on the other ends of the wires. I'll definitely look at that, but at this point I feel like I should still get a coil just in case: it's only $10 and I'd rather not risk having to make another trip.
 
I would try to rewind the coil. Granted 2400 ohms probably means there is many turns of small gauge wire but it can be done; I have done it many times. measure the gauge of the wire and look in the magnet wire table for the approximate length. You can always wind more wire, and trim back for the correct resistance. The room temp will have an effect on the resistance but as long as it is in the ballpark your good. Reassemble the relay and check the proper gap and you are good to go. Fred
 
Right, but that's unlikely to be the case if the winding broke.
The original report was that occasionally it would start and play fine but it was very inconsistent. If it did start and he was able to play a game, he was unable to start a new one when it ended. I think I checked continuity of the wires to the coil, but can't recall for sure at this point. I know I tested continuity of the coil (while installed) and it failed, which is what lead me to believe it was bad. The intermittent nature seems to fit with a broken wire that is still barely touching.
If the coil is really bad, the there's no harm in disassembling it. All of these machines vibrate and shake a lot and very common to break a coil winding. Fortunately, the winding will usually break near the solder tabs. Intermittently working is usually a sign of that. Remove the coil, remove all of the solder from the solder pad. If the coil is broken near the attachment point at the end of the winding, peel off the paper unwind 1 turn and re-solder. 1 turn won't effect the coil at all. If it's broke near the beginning, you might have enough to solder an extension wire. Use an exacto knife to scrape off the coating. Cover your solder joint w/ some kind of conformal coating. Make note of the wire gauge and take a resistance reading
 
I would try to rewind the coil. Granted 2400 ohms probably means there is many turns of small gauge wire but it can be done; I have done it many times. measure the gauge of the wire and look in the magnet wire table for the approximate length. You can always wind more wire, and trim back for the correct resistance. The room temp will have an effect on the resistance but as long as it is in the ballpark your good. Reassemble the relay and check the proper gap and you are good to go. Fred
I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of trying to do that, but I don't have a setup to do this and I don't love the idea of taking my first stab at this on a game that's nearly an hour away.

If the coil is really bad, the there's no harm in disassembling it. All of these machines vibrate and shake a lot and very common to break a coil winding. Fortunately, the winding will usually break near the solder tabs. Intermittently working is usually a sign of that. Remove the coil, remove all of the solder from the solder pad. If the coil is broken near the attachment point at the end of the winding, peel off the paper unwind 1 turn and re-solder. 1 turn won't effect the coil at all. If it's broke near the beginning, you might have enough to solder an extension wire. Use an exacto knife to scrape off the coating. Cover your solder joint w/ some kind of conformal coating. Make note of the wire gauge and take a resistance reading
Decent chance you're right. I've done this a few times on pinball machines, but most of the time I've noticed the break and it's very possible I didn't examine this one closely enough. I'll probably get the one from PBR just in case since it's inexpensive and a bit of a drive.


Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I know a lot of them are simple, but sometimes your brain decides to overcomplicate things when it's late and you're tired. Wah wah. I'll definitely report back once I get back out there.
 
Finally got around to working on this game again last week. I did end up getting the coil Pinball Resource suggested. I did check for a broken wire but didn't see anything (and the wire was such a high gauge that it was barely visible to begin with) so I installed the coil I bought. I had to modify the mechanism it goes in since it was a little longer and the solder tabs were on the opposite end, but it did fix the issue!

Unfortunately, we had plenty of issues after that. Some of it got ironed out, but when the puck is thrown hard the game stops registering more throws and won't let you reset the game from the button, I had to do it manually at the relay. I would imagine some held relay is losing it's hold, but I couldn't reproduce the issue with the game open. I took a few video clips, if that would be helpful.
 
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