let's Talk seriously about LCD Monitors

MKplayer1start

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Never thought I would bring this up and I know it's gonna cause some Instant negative comments, but let me be clear nothing is better than a real arcade CRT Monitor.

However, LCD's have come a long way. I see some ridiculous contrast ratios like 50,000:1 and 2ms response times. Would a really high contrast ratio help for a better image for 15khz games?

and what about the new LED monitors with Glass screens? I seen one with 5,000,000:1 contrast ratio wtf?

just want to talk seriously about these new LCD/LED monitors since they can be had for really cheap. $100 you can get a really decent 19" LCD Monitor
 
I just think it's a slippery slope.. If you're not going to run an original monitor, why run an original power supply, why bother running an original boardset -> go with a 60-in1, -> go with MAME. Exaggerating a bit, but to me, the challenge of restoring my Stargate had a lot to do with, not only getting the original boards working and stable, but fixing that damn p/s, and fixing a G07 chassis and adjusting it. Of all of that, the monitor was the easy part.
 
Never thought I would bring this up and I know it's gonna cause some Instant negative comments, but let me be clear nothing is better than a real arcade CRT Monitor.

However, LCD's have come a long way. I see some ridiculous contrast ratios like 50,000:1 and 2ms response times. Would a really high contrast ratio help for a better image for 15khz games?

and what about the new LED monitors with Glass screens? I seen one with 5,000,000:1 contrast ratio wtf?

just want to talk seriously about these new LCD/LED monitors since they can be had for really cheap. $100 you can get a really decent 19" LCD Monitor

You also can get a free or 10$ 19inch tv off caigs list and get a universal chassis shipped from alvaamusments for only 75$
 
Just bought a hannspree 20" lcd from staples for $89. It's widescreen, so the fit isn't perfect but pretty close. Got thte cga to vga convertor for $39 or so off ebay. So for $128 I got to the game where I can use it. Don't get me wrong, the hobby part of this is great. The cap kits, flyback, B+ voltage, craigslist tv bargin hunting, repair research part of it is educational, but in the mean time, if I just want to play the stinking game I can.
 
for me the pcb and external items in a game need to look and feel correct. Personally I could care less if it's running an original power supply or for that matter even wiring. Wire is wire. If I have a cab that 100% looks like a pac man and is running an original pac man board but uses a jamma adapter and jamma wiring I could care less. To me this is still very acceptable. Now I wouldn't gut the original wiring or power supply if they were there and working. To go one step further I would almost definitely repair a wiring issue if most of the harness was there or simply had an issue. As for the power supply it depends on the maker. I just don't trust some power supplies so I replace some while others I repair.

Now to the point of the monitor. CRT vs LCD. If someone would make an LCD that looked dead on like a CRT. I mean in every way including a curved glass front. If they did this and the pic looked like a CRT, I would have no issue using it. I can't see making the glass part an issue. Honestly I have no clue why someone can't write a program similar to how they add effects to video to get the look of a CRT. I know MAME has all kinds of bells and whistles like the option to add a little screen burn. Basically if they could get the look dead on, I would have no issue using them but the games need to look like how they are supposed to and for that matter how i remember them.
 
There are some huge advantages to throwing a Chevy engine into an old Jaguar.

But, afterwards, you've gotta ask yourself if you still have a Jag...
 
I built my mame cab with a crt monitor because I wanted to retain that vintage look when playing the games. I think its ok to upgrade the insides and stuff you'll never see but I still want my vintage stuff to look original or atleast of the period
 
Seriously, in all seriousiness, its all up to you and what you want.

If you intend on keeping a game or sellng it, if you plan to sell it, might you have a hard time selling it with an LCD? Might buyers want the original CRT look and feel, or some may not care?
 
The slight blur of the CRT monitor..just the way it works.. is a huge part of the charm of the original graphics. It's helps a 30yr old game still have graphics that look good. It's a part of the 'feel' of an original game. I don't think restoration/original feel, etc.. go with LCD at all. I think LCD has a place in gambling machines, and perhaps some MAME cabinets. If I ever do a MAME, I'll want to use a CRT, even if a computer monitor.
 
My experience so far with CRT monitors:

1. K7000 Installed cap kit. Working great

2. K7000 (backup) Installed cap kit, and new flyback. Still not Working.

3. Sharp Image Si-325 Installed new Flyback, Great then the Monitor lost it's Vacuum Seal

4. Sanyo EZV Tube lost Blue gun, I could buy a Rejuvenation tool for $100+ dollars and maybe it will work, Maybe not. If it does, how long will it last?

I only have 2 cabs and already it seems like I'm always dealing with monitor issues. I also have a wife that hates when I have to keep buying new parts lol. I know LCD will never look as good as CRT does, but maybe just maybe it won't look as bad as others are making it out to be. I guess I have to see for myself.
 
The problem is that LCDs just look DIFFERENT. The games were originally designed to play on a CRT, and that has a certain amount of fuzzing going on because of the nature of the phosphors. The look of the games was tuned to the technology of the times. When you see the games on an LCD, they simply look different (I had this really shoved in my face when I saw a multi-cade cab at the last show I went to - lovely LCD monitor, but oh boy did it look different than the CRTs).

The other factor is that when LCDs aren't exactly the right # of pixels for the signal, you get some odd aliasing effects in the digital realm, and again they just look different.

I would suggest that, if you can, you find someone who has an LCD on a game like the one you are considering putting an LCD on, and play it a bit to see if you like the look or not.
 
Just bought a hannspree 20" lcd from staples for $89. It's widescreen, so the fit isn't perfect but pretty close. Got thte cga to vga convertor for $39 or so off ebay. So for $128 I got to the game where I can use it. Don't get me wrong, the hobby part of this is great. The cap kits, flyback, B+ voltage, craigslist tv bargin hunting, repair research part of it is educational, but in the mean time, if I just want to play the stinking game I can.

"You know what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like this?"

"When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."

Love your Avatar.
 
The problem is that LCDs just look DIFFERENT. The games were originally designed to play on a CRT, and that has a certain amount of fuzzing going on because of the nature of the phosphors. The look of the games was tuned to the technology of the times. When you see the games on an LCD, they simply look different (I had this really shoved in my face when I saw a multi-cade cab at the last show I went to - lovely LCD monitor, but oh boy did it look different than the CRTs).

The other factor is that when LCDs aren't exactly the right # of pixels for the signal, you get some odd aliasing effects in the digital realm, and again they just look different.

I would suggest that, if you can, you find someone who has an LCD on a game like the one you are considering putting an LCD on, and play it a bit to see if you like the look or not.

What I'm wondering is if a really good LCD, one with a really high Contrast Ratio, Brightness, fast Response Time... would any of these factors improve the look of 15khz games? It just seems like LCD has really improved lately. I found a LG monitor for $109 brand new 8000:1 Contrast Ratio, 2ms Response time, and Brightness of 300

I have heard a lot of talk about it not looking good, but not all LCD's are the same. if you use a $50 LCD off craigslist that was made in 2001 I fully expect it to not look good. but has anybody used a new LCD with high specs? or the new LED back-lit LCD's? that's what I really want to know.
 
My experience so far with CRT monitors:

2. K7000 (backup) Installed cap kit, and new flyback. Still not Working.

That's been my experience with every K7000. This last month I've rebuilt the flyback twice on two K7000's and cap'd them both each time...still dead as shit. :(

It's preference. I prefer the CRTs in my machines and can only imagine going LCD if I wanna run a more modern game out of a cap (Super Street Fighter IV for example). With that said, eventually (10-20 years from now...maybe 30), however, the CRT tubes are gonna be so obsolete from our society that we'll be lucky to find a non-burn 19/25 inch tube in the trash, let alone off craigslist (I guess it won't be our problem though, since we'll all be too old to lift a damn monitor, let alone work up the strength to play our games :p).

As for being legit on the internals of a game, the proper boardset and a CRT are what is important to me. Original power supply is icing, but if I gotta run a switching power supply to keep my Pole Position running, that's what I am doing.
 
I say it depends on the game, as to whether you should upgrade. Ultimately, monitors will fail, tubes will become rare and gaming will be a shadow of its former self. But as long as there are collectors and people wanting to play them they will survive in some form or fashion. I have heard DK looks good on an LCD. And this last week, I had heard of a guy getting LCDs in the correct ratio in bulk for around 170 with the converter board. But I doubt he wants to deal in them. Bottom line is you do what you gotta do. I myself have a great looking Taitronics Space Invaders. It has a monitor problem that I have been unable to correct. And I am looking at using a color LCD to upgrade and I think it would look great since the game uses the mirror anyways. And while I'm at it, I will probably upgrade to a SI: part 2 board so its in color. Its not my preference, but its better than playing a half working game or parting one out.
 
"You know what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like this?"

"When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."

Pork Chop Express at his best!!
One thing about lcd's tv's and otherwise, is the "screendoor effect" when you're not looking at it head on. You want to see what it looks like first to see if it really bugs you. Some lcd's may be better than others. The monitor I bought has a considerable amount. Playing two players, is at an angle such that the colors looks like you're on acid. Is ok with me though. Until I get a chance to get the real thing fixed.
 
I say it depends on the game, as to whether you should upgrade. Ultimately, monitors will fail, tubes will become rare and gaming will be a shadow of its former self. But as long as there are collectors and people wanting to play them they will survive in some form or fashion. I have heard DK looks good on an LCD. And this last week, I had heard of a guy getting LCDs in the correct ratio in bulk for around 170 with the converter board. But I doubt he wants to deal in them. Bottom line is you do what you gotta do. I myself have a great looking Taitronics Space Invaders. It has a monitor problem that I have been unable to correct. And I am looking at using a color LCD to upgrade and I think it would look great since the game uses the mirror anyways. And while I'm at it, I will probably upgrade to a SI: part 2 board so its in color. Its not my preference, but its better than playing a half working game or parting one out.

My problem with that argument is that although older tech, the early 80s monitors were designed to be serviced (the parts, service manuals, etc..), while the newer TVs and monitors are considered by most to be disposable and non-serviceable. Not to say newer monitors CAN'T be repaired, but they're not designed with that in mind anymore.
 
Another HUGE problem with the LCD's is that theres input lag . Its converting analog to digital and that gives a lag to the controls .

Look it up on other retro console gaming forums . Playing old consoles like NES on an LCD gives you input lag .

The LCD tv's are good for digital HD game systems , not the old school ones .

So I'd imagine you'd have the same problem running an old arcade pcb to an LCD digital monitor .

If your sick of working on monitors , grab any 19" tv on craigslist and buy a new chassis for it . Its cheaper than buying an LCD and will work and look a million times better .
 
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Also another route you can do is pick up a Sony Trinitron studio monitor off ebay , http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=so...monitor&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 , search for a local one , decase it and put it in your cab . They take RGB .

I picked up one local for $100 .

Lots of mame cabs do this .

The picture is good , but probably not as good as an original arcade monitor , but better than an LCD .
 
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