Laminate application to plywood vs particleboard - stability?

joeycuda

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Laminate application to plywood vs particleboard - stability?

This question is regarding my MC cabaret project, which I quit on after the laminate I applied to the sides of my new cabinet bubbled/lifted in spots. I don't think that I had an issue with applying the contact cement, as I applied a couple of coats to both the laminate and cabinet, just as instructed. Think it might be either
-The new cabinet sides I made are 3/4" birch ply. Could it be that the plywood moves more than pb, so with the wood movement, the laminate loosened up?
-The garage is humid at times, so could humidity have been a factor?

Either way, the laminate is being stripped off. I got this laminate really cheap, so it's mostly time that I've lost here.

I'm kinda considering rebuilding the whole damn cabinet, but particle board like the original cabinet. I wonder if laminate will adhere to pb better in the long run? It or MDF should be absolutely dimensionally stable?

thanks for reading
 
Plywood is much more stable IMHO. I scratch built and laminated a mrs pac man CT and had no issues. Humidity could certainly be an issue, but why did you do more than one coat of contact cement? One even coat, sprayed on is best, but brushed ok. Let both surfaces dry completely then stick them together like you're putting on side art. I usually put a full size panel over the fresh laminate and then weight it down for a few hours. Never had an issue.
 
I'm not sure how different generic birch ply is from baltic birch, but I worked at a museum for many years where the exhibit cabinetry was built almost exclusively with baltic birch plywood and laminated with excellent results using a milky green contact cement. After applying contact cement to both sides, allow them to just dry to the touch before placing together and then go all over it heavily with a laminate roller. After drying and removing excess with a router, it can also be good to file the edges some at a 45 degree angle using a metal file. Baltic birch ply is available at hardwood and woodworker supply stores. Good luck with the project!
 
I'm not sure how different generic birch ply is from baltic birch, but I worked at a museum for many years where the exhibit cabinetry was built almost exclusively with baltic birch plywood and laminated with excellent results using a milky green contact cement. After applying contact cement to both sides, allow them to just dry to the touch before placing together and then go all over it heavily with a laminate roller. After drying and removing excess with a router, it can also be good to file the edges some at a 45 degree angle using a metal file. Baltic birch ply is available at hardwood and woodworker supply stores. Good luck with the project!

That's basically what I did.. the contact cement was the DAP or whatever that the Lowes guy recommended. I believe the directions on the can mention doing a 2nd coat, if the material is rough or porous. Though I sanded the plywood, I did a tiny extra on the cement that way. I don't think that hosed it.

Actually, this laminate was the super thin "vertical grade" variety, but the reason it was cheap was that it was OLD and some pieces were brittle and would crack. I'm guessing now that the laminate just wasn't good, could have been exposed to too much heat or moisture, breaking down, maybe not perfectly flat anymore, although it applied flat (j-roller) and looked great after being applied..

I have done a few cabinet fronts with the standard grade matte black and no lifting issues.

I'll probably break down and buy some more laminate and redo the sides one of these days..

Thanks for the replies, guys!
 
I did my kitchen a while ago and found this:

SUBSTRATES
Formica Brand Laminate sheet should be bonded to an
appropriate substrate, such as #45 density particleboard (ANSI
A208.1 - 1999), or Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF). Due to the
potential for stress cracking, shrink-back, and surface telegraphing
problems, the use of plywood is strongly discouraged and not
recommended. The substrate should be sanded smooth, and
should be clean, free of oil or grease, and uniform in thickness.

http://www.formica.com/trade/Documents.aspx?type=DCT_TECH_SHEET&subtype=FUI_PRODUCTLINES

Under the tech data doc
 
I did my kitchen a while ago and found this:

SUBSTRATES
Formica Brand Laminate sheet should be bonded to an
appropriate substrate, such as #45 density particleboard (ANSI
A208.1 - 1999), or Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF). Due to the
potential for stress cracking, shrink-back, and surface telegraphing
problems, the use of plywood is strongly discouraged and not
recommended. The substrate should be sanded smooth, and
should be clean, free of oil or grease, and uniform in thickness.

http://www.formica.com/trade/Documents.aspx?type=DCT_TECH_SHEET&subtype=FUI_PRODUCTLINES

Under the tech data doc

Wow, thanks.. I didn't even see that info before, although I suspected it. I think I got the 'shrink back' and surface telegraphing. While I did use birch ply with laminate on the front of my 720, I don't think I'll see an issue there as it's the thicker laminate, not vertical grade. I have seen factory Atari fronts that were plywood/Formica. However, with the thin/vertical grade stuff I used, I got the problems..

It sucks to invest a lot of time into something then not be satisfied with the work. The only way I can deal with that and not get pissed off too bad is to think it refined skills and lets me improve next time. I free-handed the curved corners in the recess for the marquee on the front panel and got some chipping, not that anyone would notice, but I did. I think I'll make a jig for next time and use the proper sized bit to get the right radius curve. Ugggggggggghhhhh
 
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