TPG is not always a perfect signal for every monitor, try using the PCB intended for the monitor.
K7000 Oddity
- Thread starter Infa Red
- Start date
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Odd, I was thinking that, so I got a update as I tried that, and unfortunately its all bad news. Hoping there is some answer to what could be causing this.
Ok, so its a Spy Hunter where I'd want this monitor. So I popped it on. And well, its even worse but different issues. It scrolls from side to side (which is really vertical hold in this case), and there is no adjustment that keeps it still. Spent 30min trying, its not happening. Odd it doesn't do this on the TPG though.
Next issue that isn't on the TPG is the horizontal size (which is the games vertical), it doesn't go big enough, and I have it cranked as "wide" as it will go. So it has these odd white bar ends for each the top and bottom (which is really the monitor's sides in this case).
The only good news is the monitor ran for hours rock solid, quite and I got it pretty good tuned in, I'm happy enough with all that.
So is it possible that some monitors just don't like vertical games ? Or do I need to wire the horizontal/vertical opposite ? IDK. Or is this actually the PCB maybe ? Thing is, the game PCB was working fine before on the old shitty looking monitor, so, not sure if its really the PCB,, BUT oddly the audio seems to have stopped working, which is real odd cause I rebuilt the audio board not long ago and it stopped that hum, now all hum no sound. lol Related ?
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any help on this appreciated. Hopefully this is a somewhat common prob ?
Thing is, is why would this not be like this on a TPG, yet do this when presenting the SH Game PCB ?
Thing is, is why would this not be like this on a TPG, yet do this when presenting the SH Game PCB ?
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And update - plot thickens. So I tried my Tapper (horizontal game) on it. The results are NOT what happens with Spy Hunter (with the V-Hold), but they are the same results the TPG shows. Horizontal does not go wide enough, AND Vertical Position does not move down far enough.
So they mystery is why 2 different types of problems only apparent across 2 different games/TPG.
SUMMARY -
• The V-Hold problem is isolated to Spy Hunter only. (so possibly not the monitor?).
• The Vertical Position and horizontal width problems are happening on all 3 sources, (so apparently they are official and pointing towards monitor?)
So they mystery is why 2 different types of problems only apparent across 2 different games/TPG.
SUMMARY -
• The V-Hold problem is isolated to Spy Hunter only. (so possibly not the monitor?).
• The Vertical Position and horizontal width problems are happening on all 3 sources, (so apparently they are official and pointing towards monitor?)
So the width adjustment on the K7000 will only do so much; about 1/4" total. If you need the image wider or narrower, you have to change out c38 to a different value. Search around, it's well documented.
Depending on the PCB, i've noticed on several k7000 19" models the image is a bit elevated with like yours. My Neogeo is like that, but it depends on the PCB. My Playchoice 10 is dead on, my Magic Sword is also dead on.
For your spyhunter, the only thing you can do to narrow it down is try another monitor. I've definitely run into geometry issues with certain combinations, MVS boards on 25" K7000s are never quite centered correctly without some fold over. You just have to find a happy middle sometimes.
Also, re-reading your first post, I noticed this is a tube swap. Even if the TV yoke is in the same range as a standard K7000 you often will have width/height size issues. The only way to completely avoid that is to swap the yoke. In my experience, it usually us just swapping a width cap though.
Depending on the PCB, i've noticed on several k7000 19" models the image is a bit elevated with like yours. My Neogeo is like that, but it depends on the PCB. My Playchoice 10 is dead on, my Magic Sword is also dead on.
For your spyhunter, the only thing you can do to narrow it down is try another monitor. I've definitely run into geometry issues with certain combinations, MVS boards on 25" K7000s are never quite centered correctly without some fold over. You just have to find a happy middle sometimes.
Also, re-reading your first post, I noticed this is a tube swap. Even if the TV yoke is in the same range as a standard K7000 you often will have width/height size issues. The only way to completely avoid that is to swap the yoke. In my experience, it usually us just swapping a width cap though.
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Yes this is a tube swap and a yoke swap (yoke is not original to tube) - it would super suck to try another, as I worked pretty hard to get this one just right. It looks good too.. other than positioning. DAMN !
Now just like the horizontal width cap trick to get more/less width, is there a cap that controls vertical positioning that I could also change values to get it to sit lower ? Vertical size works great and vast fyi.
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Another update ! For Spy Hunter vertical Hold issue - Solved - I think I had the sync part of the cable reversed ? Or its a intermittent issue, cause its not moving anymore.
That said, the issues still reside for Spy Hunter... Width not going wide enough and Vertical Position not going low enough. And Spy Hunter got these white bars at the tops and bottoms (sides in pic), so lol it insists I stretch that out.
That said, the issues still reside for Spy Hunter... Width not going wide enough and Vertical Position not going low enough. And Spy Hunter got these white bars at the tops and bottoms (sides in pic), so lol it insists I stretch that out.
mecha
Well-known member
do you have any idea how many Spy Hunters in the wild have white bars like that from monitor swaps?
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I do not, lol no. But that doesn't make the issue any more acceptable IMO.
So for the width, looks like this is what I will try. And you are right, I've read about this a few times, just will have to dig them up to find out which value change equals a wider picture, etc..
**Now the question of the hour, does the vertical position have a component that I can also do something similar with ? Note for this I actually wouldn't need more or less "span" necessarily, but could also benefit from a different (lower) positional starting point. Either would work really
mecha
Well-known member
for posterity, exhibit A
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Nice job. Way to stick with it.
I deliberately have small white bars at the top and bottom of my picture on my g07. I need to see every pixel of the screen, especially at the bottom where the torpedo boats spring up.
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UPDATE !!
Ok so I tested the (assumed) problem chassis on a other tube/yoke set up that was verified and it looked fine.
I then tested a known working chassis on the tube/yoke set up that the assumed problem chassis was on and it showed the same problem !
So the problem was following the tube/yoke, not the chassis. I then found a different yoke and swapped it onto the tube I needed this to work on and used the assumed troubled chassis and it looks fine now horizontal wise. Vertically looks a lot better, BUT still doesn't sit right. I'd like it to go lower, but at the full position in that direction on the pot.
So really, good news overall. The math here is that if you get a yoke with less (lower) resistance readings that will allow the image to be bigger on the screen. At least I think, because thats what happened here.
I'd still like to pose a question though - Is there a cap or component in the Vertical Positioning circuit path that I could replace and would it effect the span I have to adjust it ? Or even a cap or component that would give me a slightly different starting point at 0 ? (lower in this case).
Ok so I tested the (assumed) problem chassis on a other tube/yoke set up that was verified and it looked fine.
I then tested a known working chassis on the tube/yoke set up that the assumed problem chassis was on and it showed the same problem !
So the problem was following the tube/yoke, not the chassis. I then found a different yoke and swapped it onto the tube I needed this to work on and used the assumed troubled chassis and it looks fine now horizontal wise. Vertically looks a lot better, BUT still doesn't sit right. I'd like it to go lower, but at the full position in that direction on the pot.
So really, good news overall. The math here is that if you get a yoke with less (lower) resistance readings that will allow the image to be bigger on the screen. At least I think, because thats what happened here.
I'd still like to pose a question though - Is there a cap or component in the Vertical Positioning circuit path that I could replace and would it effect the span I have to adjust it ? Or even a cap or component that would give me a slightly different starting point at 0 ? (lower in this case).
Not that I'm aware of, but the vertical size is related to the resistance of the yoke. I ran into this issue before with a kortex chassis, which is a clone of a k7000. I assumed that because it was a clone the vertical range was the same.
K7000 Clone (Kortek KTW-N-26) Vertical Size too large
I've been working on a Kortek chassis that was previously in Vertical Collapse. I worked out the issue as piggybacked on this thread: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/kortek-vertical-collapse.342068 Short version: blown d13, out of spec r91, bad IC3 Given my new issue isn't a...
forums.arcade-museum.com
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Interesting (and thanks for the link and info), so yea my vertical sizing is great, gets too big and too small and everywhere in-between, but the vertical position just needs a tad more ability to go lower for a perfectly centered pic. This is the case on a TPG, the actual game it will go to, plus every other test game I put on it, so its official. And remember, this is 1 of the same problems I had, just now its much better/close.
I didn't think to maybe just change my Vertical Position pot to a different value... in theory seems like it should work, but I have a feeling I'd get similar results that you got. lol
Its possible the yoke I swapped it for is "better" yes, but still not ideal. Maybe I got the horizontal in the perfect range that this chassis likes with this yoke compared to the other, but the vertical is better, just not where it wants it... Possibly ? Sadly I got no more yokes that closely fit.
But holy shit you mention ranges awfully low from what I see on other K7000's. Maybe thats my prob with this one ? So my Heavy Barrel yoke (totally factory stock) is 13.5/3.0, thats what that K7000, P447, (CR31 neckboard) chassis wants. Thats what I was gauging this K7000 off of,, but I have seen K7000's working fine on yokes between the range of 15.0/4.0 to 12.4/2.0 'ish. Buffet seems to say lower and thats strange to me. Or should I say, why haven't I seen this then. Maybe is there a difference between the CR31 to the CR23 neckboard chassis' ?
This whole thing is CR31. So thats why I compared it to my Heavy Barrel.
Anyway, I was trying on a yoke that was 14.8/4.0 and had. those problems I discussed earlier. Now I found a 13.0/2.5 yoke I I got much better results. Horizontal and Vertical SIZING absolutely perfect. I'm just battling with a vertical position *slight* issue. I can live with it, but for learning purposes, I'd love to know whats causing it and get it 100% to my liking.
I may want to mention this K7000 is a P447D board. My Heavy Barrel is a P447. I have these CR31 K7000 chassis' that are P447, P447A, P447B, etc.. ! So I didn't think that would matter.
I didn't think to maybe just change my Vertical Position pot to a different value... in theory seems like it should work, but I have a feeling I'd get similar results that you got. lol
Its possible the yoke I swapped it for is "better" yes, but still not ideal. Maybe I got the horizontal in the perfect range that this chassis likes with this yoke compared to the other, but the vertical is better, just not where it wants it... Possibly ? Sadly I got no more yokes that closely fit.
But holy shit you mention ranges awfully low from what I see on other K7000's. Maybe thats my prob with this one ? So my Heavy Barrel yoke (totally factory stock) is 13.5/3.0, thats what that K7000, P447, (CR31 neckboard) chassis wants. Thats what I was gauging this K7000 off of,, but I have seen K7000's working fine on yokes between the range of 15.0/4.0 to 12.4/2.0 'ish. Buffet seems to say lower and thats strange to me. Or should I say, why haven't I seen this then. Maybe is there a difference between the CR31 to the CR23 neckboard chassis' ?
This whole thing is CR31. So thats why I compared it to my Heavy Barrel.
Anyway, I was trying on a yoke that was 14.8/4.0 and had. those problems I discussed earlier. Now I found a 13.0/2.5 yoke I I got much better results. Horizontal and Vertical SIZING absolutely perfect. I'm just battling with a vertical position *slight* issue. I can live with it, but for learning purposes, I'd love to know whats causing it and get it 100% to my liking.
I may want to mention this K7000 is a P447D board. My Heavy Barrel is a P447. I have these CR31 K7000 chassis' that are P447, P447A, P447B, etc.. ! So I didn't think that would matter.
