Joust 2 Repair Log..

andykmv

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Pulled the Joust 2 out of storage, into my messygaragestoreroomworkshoparcade and just getting started on checking it over.

To start with i thought i would include any links i could find to "Joust 2" as references.
[google] "joust 2" repair [results]
http://www.arcade-museum.com/members/game_detail.php?klov_id=8244
KLOV - http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8244
Joust 2 speaker hum - http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1337368
Hermit Creek Joust 2 - http://www.hermitcreek.com/arcade/games/joust2.asp
general Joust issues - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/79424-13-tech-joust
Madocs Arcade - http://www.madocowain.com/Arcade/Joust2/joust2_1.html
My Arcade Repair - http://www.myarcaderepair.com/forsale/index.php?catid=3
mame reference Joust 2 - http://www.retrogoggles.com/
repairs - http://andrewandson.com/index.php?mnu=Arcades
repairs - http://www.atlantaarcades.com/index.php?searchStr=joust+2&_a=viewCat
tech info - http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/techwilliamshardwareid.html#joust2
other info - http://www.arcade-collectors.com/ (how do i register here ? registration is disabled...)
williams PS's - http://www.vectorlist.org/Rasterlist/2000/11/0000.html
maaca atrchives - not strictly joust2 but interesting http://s107351202.onlinehome.us/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1225901281/s-all/
klov forum qn - http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1346578#post1346578
vidpin video recap guides - http://www.vidpin.com/tech_videorecap.asp
interesting link on joust - http://streptos-music.noblogs.org/post/2008/02/04/joust/
toms hw - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/81727-13-tech-joust-power
joust - http://s107351202.onlinehome.us/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl/Blah.pl%3Fb-OPL1/Blah.pl?m-1211499616/
level42 on dragonslair - http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=917.45
marathons - hmm - http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php?topic=845.15

not too many "joust 2" references out there.
arcadesolution site - http://www.arcadesolution.com/joust2.html
and again - http://www.arcadesolution.com/rom.html interesting reference to failure symptoms on joust/robo/sini. - i was getting repeating rug tests afte the rom test passed. i wonder if the symptoms are similar with joust2.
 
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i need to give my j2 power supply the once over as the 5v, 12 & -5 rails are all off spec when under normal load. details to follow.

the joust 2 power supply board is just a little diff to the sinistar etc style power supply PCBs in that there are some extra components - there is a diamond shaped heatsink on the power supply PCB with a large TO3 metal can transistor on it. hmm. need to check this out.
 
Check the Mystic Marathon drawing set. The power supply diagram, parts and schematic are in there. The TO3 is actually a dual diode.

ken
 
My Joust 2 has been acting flakey lately - I think its ram. comes up and all the graphics have anomolies, but it sounds and plays fine. tends to get a bit better as it warms up. Im gonna have to run throug all the links and see if I can find something on it.
 
Check the Mystic Marathon drawing set. The power supply diagram, parts and schematic are in there. The TO3 is actually a dual diode.

ken

aha! DOH! what a dope - i looked at the first psu pcb pages in the schematic and didnt go further to the next psu pcb schematic (that shows the change from the big bridge to the dual diode) . definitely a case of RTFM on me! :eek::D

thanks ken
 
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No worries. The MM was the 4rd manual I tried. I looked at Inferno, SmashTV and Turkey Shoot first, with no luck. I knew I had seen one like that in a manual but didn't remember which one.

BTW: I finally picked up a Joust 2 sound board to complete my J2 boardset thanks to gamingdevice (Mike). I may need to pick out a semi decent Joust cabinet for conversion now that I know how to cut and remount the monitor shelf for a vertical monitor (after the Moon Patrol to Sinistar conversion). I've got another vertical 4600 to use. I just need a bezel, marquee and control panel overlay (and time of course :D).

ken
 
Joust 2

when i first fired up the machine, the machine booted up, and showed the rom test screen (see below - this is superullys joust2 rom test screen pic).
superullys-romtestscn-IMG_1242.jpg

and my joust2 stepped through each rom and each rom was shown as ok.

the next step in bootup was the rug test screen (pic to follow)

here is where the work needed really starts. the rug test would repeat itself ad nauseum, occasionally it would display 90% of the following text screen but would always reboot itself etc etc.
 
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Joust 2 ...continued

switched off the machine and on the vid board i did the following:

Step1
- pulled all wiring loom leads and reseated.
no change.

Step 2
- separated and reseated the main pcbs.
no change.

Step 3
- pulled all rams and reseated. i noticed a whole bunch of crappy single wipe sockets. these will have to be replaced.
- pulled the 3 roms and reseated
- there were also a few other socketted chips - pulled & reseated those.

Crap. display now shows horizontal bars about a 1/4" white dark white etc. but even a bad symptom can be useful information.

At this point i re-checked the Power supply voltages. the 5v rail and -5v rails were off spec at the pcb.

Next To Dos:
1. check over and adjust/repair the 5v and the -5v voltage rails.
2. replace all the ram sockets with new dual wipe sockets. - Need to go over board and clean up any solder splashes!
3. if necessary swap in 4116 ics from my defender.
4. Also found a wire link across two pins on one end of a ram chip. (photo to come) - check out the reason for the mod!
5. Found two cut tracks (looks accidental as they are large traces on the edge of the board) - repair it!
 
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Just 2 repair log...

To Do #2: RAM socket replacement
- pulled all rams and set aside
- lifted the top off all single wipe sockets
- heat the soldered in pins with my normal soldering station iron and removed the pins with pliers.
- pulled out the desolder pump and
- desoldered the 1 machine socket and removed. mongrel of a thing.
- desoldered the 2 dual wipe (older style) sockets
- cleaned solder out of 1/3 of holes. 2/3 to go!

time to stop for tea. and my back is killing me from hunching over a hot iron! ;)

EDIT: musta bin goin mad with fatigue doin all those sockets cause i said the same thing twice! crap! 2nd copy deleted

- finished cleaning solder out of ram socket holes
Also found a wire link across two pins on one end of a ram chip. (photo to come), and two cut tracks (looks accidental as they are large traces on the edge of the board)

To Dos:
1. check over and adjust/repair the 5v and the -5v voltage rails.
2. Remove old ram sockets. DONE. Need to go over board and clean up any solder splashes! then replace all the ram sockets with new dual wipe sockets.
3. if necessary swap in 4116 ics from my defender.
4. Also found a wire link across two pins on one end of a ram chip. (photo to come) - check out the reason for the mod!
5. Found two cut tracks (looks accidental as they are large traces on the edge of the board) - repair it!
 
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You've got more patience then I have, my friend. I hate replacing RAM sockets. I only do that as a last resort and then just the ones that the RAM test points out as bad. :)

ken
 
You've got more patience then I have, my friend. I hate replacing RAM sockets. I only do that as a last resort and then just the ones that the RAM test points out as bad. :)

ken

LOL! oooooh but i am paying for it ...

and there are another 6 or 7 socketed chips on that board to re-socket too, just in case. (3 rom, 3-4 ttl/other ics)
 
Joust 2

Progress...

fully removed all sockets, cleaned all holes.

started to repopulate the ram chip sockets

i mentied earlier the was a bridge across two pins on IC105 (oe of the ram sockets) - i had left that in place until i had started to reinstall sockets, so now it was time to check it out so i could refit the socket where the bridge was installed.

so i trace the conections - pins 1 & 16 were shorted together. i had also mentioned that there were two traces cut on the outer edge of the board, coords L10. then i re-examined the ram ics used - 41256's!

of a 4116 Vbb pin 1 is -5v., Vdd pin 8=12v, vcc pin 9 is 5v

i havent checked what else has been modded but i would say the oter diffs are in Vcc and the A7?a8 lines
 
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Joust 2

Progress...

fully removed all sockets, cleaned all holes.

started to repopulate the ram chip sockets

i mentied earlier the was a bridge across two pins on IC105 (oe of the ram sockets) - i had left that in place until i had started to reinstall sockets, so now it was time to check it out so i could refit the socket where the bridge was installed.

so i trace the conections - pins 1 & 16 were shoted together. i had also mentioned that there was one )(poss two ) traces cut on the outer edge of the board, coords L10. then i re-examined the ram ics used - 41256's!

RAM 5v -5v 12v
4116 Vcc p9 Vbb p11 Vdd p8
41256 Vcc p8

so, i may have misread the pin nos that were bridged - it would make sense to bridge pins 8/9 for the supply voltage. hm have to check the photos again

i think my approach will be to restore to 4116/4164 noperation long term but for now the bridge will have to go back in!
 
Need part no info on TO3 can on a Joust 2 Power PCB...

this is the later revision that does NOT hav ethe full 25a bridge rectifier, instead it has a TO3 can which is a dual rectifier, common cathode.

can anyone tell what part number is located on their to3 can ? i am looking at an NTE 6200/6210 type equivalent replacement part at the moment, and woould like to confirm what the original boards had installed. i cant read the numbers on mine.
 
The spec calls for 30A 100V so the NTE 6200 should work just fine. You might want to test it first before you spend a lot of time sourcing something that still works.

ken
 
The spec calls for 30A 100V so the NTE 6200 should work just fine. You might want to test it first before you spend a lot of time sourcing something that still works.

ken
i'll have to cause i am having a hard time finding someone with a TO3 package ! plenty of to3p (plastic) around, not so many to3's! still lookin though...
and i want some for spares just in case...
 
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Joust 2

Ram sockets now all fitted. just need to cleanup the resin residue and eyeball the soldering job - each pin - and run some compressed air over it to get reid of loose solder drops. that amounts to: 380ish desolder jobs, eyeballing of 380ish ic pads (straighten one donut edge that had bent up), resoldering 380ish pins, cleanout desolder pump 20 times, swap and clean filter coil 10 times, stop to admire the work - 100 times .:D
 
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Joust 2 repair log...

..... stop to admire the work - 100 times .:D

ok update time! :)
-finished checking over all the replacement ram socket repairs
-re-fitted the hack for the 41256 ram chips
-reinstalled 41256 ram chips
-retested the joust power supply (game boards not connected) and -voltages were still way too high.
-removed power supply PCB and sound pcb.
-temporarily fitted my defender power supply pcb (yes it does work! DONT TRY THIS AT HOME UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! the joust 2 wiring loom from the transformer has 3 extra pins for another winding but that just hangs off the end no probs. also had to pop out pin 10 (NC) of the defender tranny header.)
- game now fires up (less sound as the pcb was removed)

i know - PICS or it didnt happen !
rug test http://lh3.ggpht.com/_C8QfKbqwCA4/TKe6zPU_u5I/AAAAAAAAA-M/9FU7uqusNNI/s800/P1040605.JPG
rom test (completed) http://lh4.ggpht.com/_C8QfKbqwCA4/TKe66LWcxEI/AAAAAAAAA-c/5VmHQ0vjXpY/s144/P1040607.JPG
all systems go! http://lh4.ggpht.com/_C8QfKbqwCA4/TKe69Zn3w9I/AAAAAAAAA-0/uNthN3Dg-DI/s144/P1040608.JPG
Hiscore screen (this may be familiar to someone - be assured it has a good home with some familiar company - many thanks! :)) http://lh3.ggpht.com/_C8QfKbqwCA4/TKe6_zt8Y6I/AAAAAAAAA-8/xTzvwukcZSs/s144/P1040609.JPG
title screen http://lh5.ggpht.com/_C8QfKbqwCA4/TKe7KP695cI/AAAAAAAAA_w/FlUKeyzX6Co/s144/P1040614.JPG
prepare to joust http://lh6.ggpht.com/_C8QfKbqwCA4/TKe7O_yLd0I/AAAAAAAABAI/5CrHtylFPYg/s144/P1040616.JPG
game freezes at this point - still have some work to do yet.

also time to start helping out superully get past the rom test screen on his joust2 - i needed mine as a reference platform to direct some testing. :D

man am i ecstatic with the progress! whoo hoo!:D

Next step:
repair the original joust 2 power supply PCB
 
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Check the resistors in the input bridge that supply the reference voltages to the voltage regulators. If those are off by just a hair it will throw the regulated voltages off to the transistors.

You can check whether they are balanced correctly by measuring the voltages on the input pins.

Also try swapping new voltage regulators in, sometimes they go slightly bad rather than failing completely.

ken

Edit: I got one of my spare Mystic Marathon boards running. The one with the prototype ROMs. It is very cool. It has the waves in the water animated the way I remember it, and it locks up randomly (also the way I remember it :D). I have running it in a Joust cabinet with the original MM control panel I got with the other MM boardset a couple of months ago. I'm hoping to get it finished for the show on Friday....I'll post pics in a day or so.
 
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