Jack Guarnieri emailed me - thought I'd share

[RareHero]

there's a HUGE opportunity for playfield toys to be above/beyond what we've seen with a transformers license......the "morphs" don't even have to be that elaborate. hell, they have toys that "morph" in 3 or less moves. that could be done with a pin. all you have to do is use that transforming sound effect in the background, have a playfield toy go through even TWO moves, and you've got a nerdgasm on your hands.

Forget toys - I'd want to see elements of the playfield transform...moving ramps or something....but I don't see that happening on a new Stern.

 

[RareHero]

Stern *used* to excel at sw. Lately they're just rehashing the same shallow start-the-multiballs approach.

The software is what's saving simple playfields like IM and Avatar. The stacking strategies are excellent and the goals are challenging and fun. Simple playfields and lame software = boring games (like IJ4 & South Park) ....but simple playfield w/ good software = super fun.

 

[stevenp61]

The software is what's saving simple playfields like IM and Avatar. The stacking strategies are excellent and the goals are challenging and fun. Simple playfields and lame software = boring games (like IJ4 & South Park) ....but simple playfield w/ good software = super fun.

OK, I'll grant that the recent MB-oriented games have some good stacking strategy, but the recent Stern games have been pretty interchangeable in that respect. I would modify your equation tho and add another:

simple playfield w/ good software = fun.

great playfield w/ good software = super fun ;^)

(LotR is a good example of the latter, imo.)

 

[yzrider926]

I'm not going to lie, theme is a factor with me, and this is why I don't ever think I'll buy a WOZ. I have no doubt it will be a great game, especially with KJ programming it. Now depending on how WOZ turns out and what JJP does in the future, I may purchase one from him.

Transformers would be cool too, hopefully if it's made they put some effort into it and make it a killer game worth owning.

 

[yzrider926]

Jack is really a pretty cool guy. A couple of years ago a co-worker and I were driving up to NYC for work and made a slight detour out to PinballSales. Jack was really cool and let us come in and just play games in his showroom and such. Probably didn't hurt that I had recently bought a game from him and bought another a few months later, but my impression of him is he's a decent guy and actually cares about pinball.

 

[Deadly]

IMHO

I'm quite surprised how people will state the theme is irrelevant. I 100% disagree with that. How many times have people talked about games (for instance The Shadow) and say the game is awesome but due to the theme it's a game to be had cheaper? My case and point. In fact (here goes my preaching again) buying a pin is very much like buying a house.
Theme on pin is the same as curb appeal for a house. No curb appeal means you most likely won;t even bother looking at it. Good theme gets the player to at least approach the pin and with that most likely the first coin drop.

(Now how many times have all of you played a pin and the sound was too low and/or the place it was in was loud and you couldn't hear the pin?) How fun is pinball with no sound? Feel free to argue that - because to me no sound ='s NO FUN. A person might as well roll a cue ball around on a pool table.
With that being said the audio/DMD visual is one half of the fun. The next part is allowing the player to understand and enjoy playing. This is the MAJOR fault/downfall of pinball. I cannot possibly express how frustrating it is for me to have people come to my house and say, "I don't understand what I'm supposed to be doing?! In my world this happens with EVERY non pinhead. And Stern wonders why pinball is dying? FFS. Back to no audio - audio calls (Avatar is EXCELLENT FOR THIS) could be better implemented but when the machine cannot be heard it's darn near pointless because if they implement a game play pause for a visual call, people will get tired of waiting (unless they implement push both flipper buttons to bypass) and then how do you get people to start doing that? Make an option to enable or disable in the menu system? Sounds feasible to me. Again just another hurdle.

Non pinheads DON'T want to walk up to a machine and have it hand them their ass. You didn't like it as a kid did you? Non pinheads don't like it either.
But OPs need relatively low ball times to make money. I get that and can agree.

I guess there's no "one size fits all" solution. But I think educating the players is a key element for the success of any machine. My personal view of course.

 

[RareHero]

OK, I'll grant that the recent MB-oriented games have some good stacking strategy, but the recent Stern games have been pretty interchangeable in that respect. I would modify your equation tho and add another:

simple playfield w/ good software = fun.

great playfield w/ good software = super fun ;^)

(LotR is a good example of the latter, imo.)

I have and love LOTR....but a serious game on LOTR is gonna take me 30-45 min. Same w/ TSPP. That's fine sometimes, but I like the variety that IM and Avatar add to my collection. I already have the two deepest games ever, plus a lot of semi-deep mode driven games. A few years ago I got BK2K and fell in love with it...the speed, brutality, addictiveness....it was really fun and felt like a great change of pace for my collection. IM and Avatar give me that addictive speedy quick-game rush that BK2K does, and I love that. Sometimes I want the grand adventure, sometimes I want the quick game or two before work in the morning.

All pin collectors are different. Some like depth, some like speed. Some like both. I like variety in my collection....I don't want all my games to be deep deep deep mode mode mode.

 

[RareHero]

IMHO

I'm quite surprised how people will state the theme is irrelevant. I 100% disagree with that. How many times have people talked about games (for instance The Shadow) and say the game is awesome but due to the theme it's a game to be had cheaper?

Theme is irrelevant if it's an older game and it's cheap!

For a new game at full price - it's absolutely relevant.

 

[stevenp61]

I don't think theme is irrelevant (it can and does add to the experience), but it is not a deciding factor for me, and I am surprised by people who say "I will never by Game X because that theme doesn't do it for me." Especially when they've never even seen the game (say, it doesn't exist yet). Same as saying "I will definitely buy Game Y because I like that theme!" Neither makes sense to me.

I can give examples; I'm sure others here may have different ones. X Files and South Park are great tv shows. And crappy pins. Do I love the theme? Yeah. Did the theme make the pin better? No. Would I ever own either game? No. I wonder if anyone here swore they'd get one of those games (or another) because of the theme, and then changed their mind when it turned out to be a lame game.

The opposite holds true as well. I'm not a LotR fan--never read the books, haven't even seen all 3 movies (none at the theater). Neutral/disinterested on the theme. But the pin looked interesting, and when first I played it 5-6 years ago I really loved it and wanted to own one someday. It's about the *game* and the *experience*, not whether the theme appeals to you. A painting or sculpture can be selected based on how it looks alone (the 'theme' as you will), but a pinball machine is a game. It's playing it that counts, not how it looks sitting in your game room.

Transformers is a decent theme. But if Stern puts out something that's just another rebranding of Avatar/Iron Man (and I truly suspect it might be), or that plays like a crapfest (X Files), do I want that game? No. Am I a huge WOZ fan? No. I think it's a very recognizable theme and brings back nostalgic memories. (Proof of this is when playing one of the different WOZ slot machines out there.) Certainly not an offensive theme, and it's family-friendly for sure. I have no WOZ toys or memorabilia at home. But if it's a solid, interesting, fun game, then I will have one. (I suspect the odds of this are MUCH higher than the odds that Stern will produce another engrossing A-list game soon, with or without SR.) The WOZ theme is certainly not a turn-off or dealbreaker for me.

The other thing I don't get is the obsession with the Muppet theme around here. Do people not realize that the Muppets is basically Sesame Street? Would you go ga-ga over a Sesame Street themed pin? Or think it is too childish? I think the theme is a bit juvenile myself. But if it were a really fun game, I would play it and consider owning one, regardless of how I felt about the theme alone.

I guess everyone is different. But for me, pinball is about the game. The theme can help (if well-integrated) but it doesn't kill a game for me. As an example, Shadow is a very good game. The fact that some people don't like the game doesn't make it less fun in my eyes. I'm not a soccer fan but I will *definitely* own a WCS some day. Etc.

Now, if there was a Gumby or Beavis & Butthead game produced, I would seriously give it a long, hard look. But any purchase decision would rest on whether or not it is an exceptionally fun game.

 

[stevenp61]

With that being said the audio/DMD visual is one half of the fun. The next part is allowing the player to understand and enjoy playing. This is the MAJOR fault/downfall of pinball. I cannot possibly express how frustrating it is for me to have people come to my house and say, "I don't understand what I'm supposed to be doing?! In my world this happens with EVERY non pinhead. And Stern wonders why pinball is dying? FFS. Back to no audio - audio calls (Avatar is EXCELLENT FOR THIS) could be better implemented but when the machine cannot be heard it's darn near pointless because if they implement a game play pause for a visual call, people will get tired of waiting (unless they implement push both flipper buttons to bypass) and then how do you get people to start doing that? Make an option to enable or disable in the menu system? Sounds feasible to me. Again just another hurdle.

Non pinheads DON'T want to walk up to a machine and have it hand them their ass. You didn't like it as a kid did you? Non pinheads don't like it either.
But OPs need relatively low ball times to make money. I get that and can agree.

I guess there's no "one size fits all" solution. But I think educating the players is a key element for the success of any machine. My personal view of course.

Yup, agree totally. Except I would sub "visual' for 'DMD visual' in the first line. It's just that Stern has stayed with DMD, which severely restricts the quality/flexibility of the visuals.

One example: The Williams and Gottlieb pin collections available on consoles are pretty sweet. The thing I like best about them? (Apart from the pretty accurate pf layouts and decent-but-not-perfect physics?) Each game has an illustrated walkthrough explaining the game, describing the modes and strategies, showing the various shots, etc. Which is why I think an LCD might improve the pin experience, esp. for more complex modern games (that have multipage rulesheets!).

In the old days, EMs could get by with simply having scoring values painted right on the pf, and the few basic rules on the rulecard. SS games added digital displays with occasional messages displayed on some games, and some audio cues when speech became common. Even use of controlled lighting on the pf (lit/flashing inserts) to guide the player became possible with SS games. DMD didn't add much, just some crude graphics for additional hints sometimes. But an LCD screen can provide extensive guidance, explanation of all the rules (rulesheet at the touch of a flipper button!), realistic hi-def animations of shots and options during attract mode or when paused, etc. This is something that could prevent players from feeling totally in the dark when playing a game for the first time (as I often do) and make complex pinball games both more attractive and more accessible to the unfamiliar player.

 

[RareHero]

The other thing I don't get is the obsession with the Muppet theme around here. Do people not realize that the Muppets is basically Sesame Street?

The Muppets were for Adults/All-ages. Have you ever seen The Muppet Show or the classic Muppet Movies? Sesame Street is for pre-schoolers. They're not the same.

It's also a theme that's classic/retro/nostalgic yet still relevant. It's a theme that covers a lot of bases.

 

[Deadly]

The Muppets were for Adults/All-ages. Have you ever seen The Muppet Show or the classic Muppet Movies? Sesame Street is for pre-schoolers. They're not the same.

It's also a theme that's classic/retro/nostalgic yet still relevant. It's a theme that covers a lot of bases.

The Muppets hold a place very near and dear to my heart. I suppose one could argue what is relevant here just as much as I would argue what a terrible idea The Rolling Stones is. We all have our likes and dislikes. But how about considering this simply as a serious VS non serious theme debate. I love my LOTR and I love my Funhouse. Serious and non serious as a perfect example.

There's certainly a market and room for both types.

 

[pudluther]

The software is what's saving simple playfields like IM and Avatar. The stacking strategies are excellent and the goals are challenging and fun. Simple playfields and lame software = boring games (like IJ4 & South Park) ....but simple playfield w/ good software = super fun.

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA!!! lay off the south park, bud.

 

[stevenp61]

Themewise, I'm taking some clues on popularity/marketability from the newer "deluxe" slot machines. These games generally have a touchscreen display (sometimes a 2-layer 'transparent' display and/or 2 displays), nice graphics and sound, incl. a high-backed chair with built-in speakers and rumble on some. These slots are built to attract customers with the themes, sights/sounds, and play modes. (Sound familiar?) Yes, there is the possibility of winning money, but most people regard slots overall as an entertainment expense, and the slot companies are putting out games with bells&whistles to attract max players.

Popular slots that I've seen/played in the past year+ include Star Trek (original series), Monopoly (a few different ones), Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Fortune, Indiana Jones... and a few takes on Wizard of Oz. Hmmmm...

Some other deluxe slots that have not been made into pins (yet) include Sex and the City, Time Machine, The Great Race... Haven't seen a Muppets or Avatar or Tron. Maybe these are coming?

Just throwing this out there as general info. Also, many of these high-end slots are made by no other than WMS Gaming.