Issues on a Williams Sys 6 Game

vipe155

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I decided to start a new thread with a few issues I'm still having with my System 6 Blackout. The help I have gotten here is amazing, and I hope to troubleshoot the few other annoying things wrong with my game.

My first, most important issue is the lack of working coin door buttons. I cannot access any adjustment or diagnostic now because the three coin door buttons don't work at all. In my quest to rid my MPU board of battery corrosion issues, I had to replace the IC5 chip. If I'm reading the schematic right (prob. not) I fear this chip is the reason why.

A much lesser issue I've noticed is that one of my rollover lane bulbs/socket does not work. It used to a few months ago. I looked at it, tried a new bulb (didn't work), and it seems to be wired ok with no apparant issues. Could the diode have gone bad? Something mechanically wrong with the socket?

I'll be going through the game seeing how everything else is functioning to see if anything else is wrong. I hope to get some opinions of what I can do with the playfield in the future as well.
 
The coin door buttons did work before, just a little while ago.

As far as the socket goes, what can be done with it? Clean it up? Just replace it?
 
For the control switches, that's a 4-pin connector into the top of the CPU board, the one with the 4 wires going into it (as opposed to the 4-pin connector with 1 wire.)

It doesn't have a keying plug to it, so can go in backwards or off by a pin if you're not careful. So double check it's on correctly, and re-seat it a couple times to see if that works.

-Hans
 
Well, today has been a real setback on this machine. I thought it was close to being ready to go, but it's the exact opposite.

1. That bulb socket still isn't working. I checked the diode (good), reflowed the solder, checked it out, etc. It looks the same as all the other sockets, so I don't know what could be wrong with it.

2. Still no coin door switches. I tried reseating and checking that connector, but no dice. If it helps at all, I replaced IC5 on the MPU Board earlier, and tried to clean up the capacitor next to it (C2 or something like that) but didn't find a replacement. The diagram I have suggests these are related to the coin door.

3. Here is the real fun part. Even with new column chips IC17, IC18 and a new PIA, I'm having trouble getting the start button, etc. to work all the time. This just happened tonight. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I can turn the game on and it will start a game immediately, or I can turn the game on and it won't do anything. I even had it work after a few minutes of not working.

4. Another new troubling issue. Blackout has a 5 bank of targets on the left side. If you complete all of them ("Mission Green"), it lights on the playfield and is a major part of the game. I started a game and was trying out different things by hand, and hit all the green targets one at a time. Then, it scored the correct green target completion, but also scored a couple of other switches on the playfield. I tried the green targets a second time, and this time the game said the opening speech saying ("Launch Mission") and acted like it was starting a new game.

This game is starting to turn into a hair-puller, and I'm seriously afraid I won't be able to fix it.
 
Regarding the lamp socket, just replace it with a new one, cheap and easy!

Have you replaced the molex connectors for the vast majority of connectors in your game? These MUST be done in order to have a reliable machine. Your intermittent start button issue could be the result of an old poorly conducting connector. Reseating a connector and then it just starts working confirms that the connector is bad and needs to be rebuilt.

You had corrosion issues with your MPU board, there is a strong possibility that your connectors have corrosion on them as well.


Same with the 40 pin interconnect between the MPU and Driver board, this must be rebuilt.
 
Well, today has been a real setback on this machine. I thought it was close to being ready to go, but it's the exact opposite.

Trust me, going through the same thing with a Firepower. It's taking a while, but it's getting there. Each thing I find narrows it down a bit more, it's going to be HUGELY satisfying once it's done. Overall it seems like a lot of symptoms, but you really have very few actual problems. You just need to find them. That's the annoying part of system 6 games is that the problem are hard to FIND, but once you do they are very easy to FIX. Now, on to your problems.

1. Lamp Socket: Minor stuff, if cleaning it didn't help then there are a couple spots on it to solder to make it work. I'll get a photo when I get a chance, but could be a bit.

2. Just to make sure, do you mean the diagnostic switches, or the "coin" switches. If its the "Coin" switches, its all related to the start button problem and the target doing wierd stuff covered in #3

If you mean the coin door diagnostic switches try putting pins 3 and 4 on the board connector straight to a ground, these are "normal" switches in that sense, and see if it does anything. could be a ground wire problem, as they all route through the same ground at pin #2. Pin 3 is the "advance" button, and pin 4 is the "Auto Up/Manual Down". For pin 4, grounded is "auto up" and ungrounded is "manual down".

3 and 4. Hmmm. Is it always the same target that causes the problem? It COULD be related to the start button issue if it's always the same target that does it. See if you can figure out which target in that bank is causing the problem, and which other switches it's causing to fire off. My guess is it's the #1 "Bottom" target that does it.

-Hans
 
1. Lamp Socket: Minor stuff, if cleaning it didn't help then there are a couple spots on it to solder to make it work. I'll get a photo when I get a chance, but could be a bit.

2. Just to make sure, do you mean the diagnostic switches, or the "coin" switches. If its the "Coin" switches, its all related to the start button problem and the target doing wierd stuff covered in #3

If you mean the coin door diagnostic switches try putting pins 3 and 4 on the board connector straight to a ground, these are "normal" switches in that sense, and see if it does anything. could be a ground wire problem, as they all route through the same ground at pin #2. Pin 3 is the "advance" button, and pin 4 is the "Auto Up/Manual Down". For pin 4, grounded is "auto up" and ungrounded is "manual down".

3 and 4. Hmmm. Is it always the same target that causes the problem? It COULD be related to the start button issue if it's always the same target that does it. See if you can figure out which target in that bank is causing the problem, and which other switches it's causing to fire off. My guess is it's the #1 "Bottom" target that does it.

-Hans

Well, on the lamp socket it has two wires for power going to it, which then go to the other two rollover lane sockets. Those must be working if the other two light. I already redid the actual lamp matrix wire connection and the diode. The socket looks exactly the same condition wise, but who knows.

I can't get any of the coin door diagnostic switches to work anymore, like manual up/down and high score reset.

I can see if doing a different combination of the 5 targets does anything different.

Honestly, I love my System 11 game compared to this. What makes me mad about it is my System 11, when I bought it, was a project game. Obviously, it had a %$#! owner/op that tried to hack repair stuff, disconnected things, etc. That game is now working 100% after minimal work. This game seems to have been taken care of reasonably well and I've put in 10x more time on it with not much to show for it.
 
Ok, here is a bit of an update. I have attached the switch matrix chart so you all know what I'm talking about.

Today, I started the game up about 8 times and the start button worked fine every time. Weird.

Issues:

-No coin door diagnostic switches
-No tilt switches seem to work. I tried them all and it never tilted the game
-It only happens some of the time, but hitting all the green targets (#11-15) or sometimes hitting all the red targets (#25-28) activate #18 and #37, which is an "Orbit Completed" to the game. Sometimes it will "Launch Mission" which is the start of a new game. Sometimes it works fine.
-Also, the #40 eject hole switch is not working. This is on the same row as the playfield tilt that doesn't work, but I don't know if that helps any.

I wonder if I should just replace the switch row chips IC15 & 16. They were in the same area that had corrosion issues, and though I cleaned them up, you never know. I already have the chips.
 

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If IC15 and IC16 are already in sockets, might as well go ahead and replace them. Could also be dirty sockets too though. I'd probably do 17 and 18 too if you have the parts. How are 2J2 and 2J3 looking?

If THAT doesn't take care of it, the problem is in the playfield wiring. Have you checked the wiring in the coin door itself? The coin switches tend to get some really ham-handed "repairs" I've noticed, and anything grounding out in that area could cause a number of switch problems. IIRC there's also a connector on the coin door wiring harness just inside the door, try re-seating that a couple times to see if it helps.

-Hans
 
If IC15 and IC16 are already in sockets, might as well go ahead and replace them. Could also be dirty sockets too though. I'd probably do 17 and 18 too if you have the parts. How are 2J2 and 2J3 looking?

If THAT doesn't take care of it, the problem is in the playfield wiring. Have you checked the wiring in the coin door itself? The coin switches tend to get some really ham-handed "repairs" I've noticed, and anything grounding out in that area could cause a number of switch problems. IIRC there's also a connector on the coin door wiring harness just inside the door, try re-seating that a couple times to see if it helps.

-Hans

I replaced IC17 and 18, put into new sockets a few days ago. IC15 & 16 don't have sockets, but I may have some laying around.

I'll look into that connector for the door.
 
Well, I had some time to work on this again tonight. Things were a little bit better.

I started off by going in and replacing the IC15 & 16 chips. I cleaned that area up real well, and reflowed the solder on the 40 pin interconnect. Then I went into the MPU board and reflowed the solder on the interconnect header pins, and resoldered the IC5 chip.

I also noticed something I had not seen before on the MPU. I found a small wire that had been soldered from the 1st pin of the 4 pin connector (on the top left) to the 1st pin on the other 4 pin connector on the top next to it. Why the hell would someone have done that anyway?

To sum things up, the coin door diagnostic buttons now work. Eject hole and playfield tilt now work (bottom row switches).

Still no tilt switches 1 & 2. Any idea where this diode is supposed to go? Found it today (sorry about the pic quality)

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/vipe155/IMG_1019.jpg

I can now get into the switch diagnostic, and I have some weird stuff going on with one switch activating another, etc. I don't know if maybe some switch is getting stuck closed sometimes or what.
 
That loose hanging diode probably went to the plumb-bob tilt. There should be a wire connected to the ring portion of the plumb-bob tilt, and I think that this was their way of disconnecting it.

The wire between the two 4-pin connectors, I have no idea why they would have done that.

I bet you'll find more oddball stuff going on in the wiring if you start looking closely. How about shooting a photo of the coin door wiring, as my bet is that you'll find something odd there. On my Black Knight I found that somebody had jumpered the start button to a coin switch, in order to set up free play. I guess they didn't know you could just turn that feature on via the diagnostic switches.

-Hans
 
1. Lamp Socket: Minor stuff, if cleaning it didn't help then there are a couple spots on it to solder to make it work. I'll get a photo when I get a chance, but could be a bit.

-Hans

Yes, most sockets can be soldered to work again. If the bottom socket wire is really loose, i.e spins freely. You then solder its monted tab, to the rivet that goes through the socket. If this makes sense...

I've done many of these and it usually fixes it. You have to use flux and scuff up the solder point to get it to flow and hold.
 
The switches look fine, it's just that it's missing the yellow switch covers for two of them, which is pretty typical. But I don't see any wiring that's out of place.

-Hans
 
The switches look fine, it's just that it's missing the yellow switch covers for two of them, which is pretty typical. But I don't see any wiring that's out of place.

-Hans

There is one more cover sitting inside the cab I have to get around to putting on. The game only came with two though, not all three.

I looked at my other game and realized that disconnected diode around the plumb bob tilt needed to go around one of the screws. I reconnected it, and now the roll tilt and plumb tilt work. I guess I'll just have to see over time if there was some reason why that was disconnected (tilting when it wasn't supposed to?) or if it was just another odd "repair" choice.

By the way, I want to disconnect the coin door lockout coil, like it talks about in the pinrepair guides. He says in there that on some games if it's set to free play it won't energize, but I don't know if that happens on mine. I don't need it, and it does get warm while the game is on. How should I disconnect it so it doesn't look like a hack job?
 
There's a couple ways to go about removing that lockout coil. The cleanest would be to remove the whole coil, associated parts, and even the wiring all the way back to the connector just inside the coin door. Make it look like it was never even there.

Another option, which would keep it visibly in place, would be to clip off the diode on the coil, and clip the wire of the actual coil off of the lugs, so that no power at all can go through any part of the coil. If you want to actually use the coin slots, you'll have to do something to wedge it into an "Activated" type position.

On mine, I just cut the power wire off, and tucked it into an inconspicuous place.
 
On mine, I just cut the power wire off, and tucked it into an inconspicuous place.

That's what I would do. That way you can just solder the wires back on if you want to use it again. I would probably throw some heat shrink tubing over the wire ends. Or even electrical tape (sure... what the hell). If you are removing more than one wire from a coil lug be sure those wires remain connected together.
 
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