Is this morally correct?

[FrizzleFried]

...but one COULD argue that if you find, say $10.00 in quarters in your cabinet... you could use those quarters... what's the difference between the quarters and tokens (if used at their originating facility)? SOMEONE paid for those tokens... what is the difference between someone buying $10 in tokens and then 5 years later GIVING them to someone or multiple someones losing $10.00 in tokens in an arcade game?

 

[FrizzleFried]

They all consume more when playing, just some more than others.

I'd argue this point...

...I do have a kill-0-watt and have done extensive testing. No... they don't "all" use more power when playing.



Most do though... and most of those who do use a couple watts at most more (minus the forcefeedback, extra light, etc. ones).

 

[SuperSprint]

but one COULD argue that if you find, say $10.00 in quarters in your cabinet... you could use those quarters... what's the difference between the quarters and tokens (if used at their originating facility)?

The quarters aren't a token you are given in exchange for payment. They don't represent pre-paid play time, they are money. If you bought a machine for $100 and found $10 in quarters, you paid $100 for a machine and received $10 in change from the seller.

SOMEONE paid for those tokens... what is the difference between someone buying $10 in tokens and then 5 years later GIVING them to someone or multiple someones losing $10.00 in tokens in an arcade game?

Big difference. If I paid $10 and then gave them to you, the game play has been paid for and remains unused. If you find them in the coin box, the token has already been used and no longer has value. Re-using them is no less wrong than finding an unlocked con box and helping yourself. Or re-using a stamp you know has been used, but the postman can't tell.

 

[ArcRevival]

I guess if I have to ask, the answer is probably no. A person could go down to their local arcade and buy tokens and measure the size so that they could go online and buy a whole bunch of them for cheap and use them in the arcade. Is that considered "wrong"? You didn't steal anything beacause you bought the tokens in both instances. However, you would be able to get the tokens in mass quantities for much cheaper than at the arcade. So is this "giving yourself a discount" or "stealing a service"? I guess that's kind of the same thing. Thoughts?

This is klov, so if you were a girl it would probably be ok with the majority here. In fact, you could probably come on here afterwards and get rep points for it. Since you are a guy then probably not.

 

[AUSyTyIN]

How about this twist: I bought a Simpsons arcade from a Namco arcade, and it had around a dozen tokens in it. Can I use those in that Namco location? I would say yes.

Another real life example: I bought a Star Wars Trilogy (with Namco seat, so it was in one of their locations, as I understand it) from a private seller and found ~50 tokens inside. Can I still use those tokens, or because I don't know what location they were originally purchased from, should I toss them?

 

[smalltownguy2]

This is klov, so if you were a girl it would probably be ok with the majority here. In fact, you could probably come on here afterwards and get rep points for it. Since you are a guy then probably not.

Wow, you still pouting over there in Idaho?

GameGirl thread must have been painful....

 

[FrizzleFried]

T
Big difference. If I paid $10 and then gave them to you, the game play has been paid for and remains unused. If you find them in the coin box, the token has already been used and no longer has value. Re-using them is no less wrong than finding an unlocked con box and helping yourself. Or re-using a stamp you know has been used, but the postman can't tell.

I've only once found tokens/quarters in a coin box. I find them at the bottom of the cab... in the bezel area... CP area... etc. Those have been paid for but not used... right?

(PS - You DO know I am playing Devils Advocate... right?)

 

[mattosborn]

I'd argue this point...

...I do have a kill-0-watt and have done extensive testing. No... they don't "all" use more power when playing.



Most do though... and most of those who do use a couple watts at most more (minus the forcefeedback, extra light, etc. ones).

The difference may become difficult to measure and essentially negligible for practical purposes, but it's always there. The processor(s) (and other components) consume more power when they become "busy". But I think the main contribution still comes from the audio, and gameplay always produces more audio than any attract mode. If you want to see the difference with your Kill-A-Watt, have it measure the total power consumption for a 15 or 30 minute period, once with the game idle and then again with constant play.

 

[SuperSprint]

How about this twist: I bought a Simpsons arcade from a Namco arcade, and it had around a dozen tokens in it. Can I use those in that Namco location? I would say yes.

Answer these two questions;

1. What is the purpose of a token, ticket, wrist band, stamp, etc.?

2. Why are the tokens you found in the coin box?

P.S. Google is scarry fast. This thread is already #1 for "theft of services arcade tokens"

 

[RedWolfJC]

Big difference. If I paid $10 and then gave them to you, the game play has been paid for and remains unused. If you find them in the coin box, the token has already been used and no longer has value. Re-using them is no less wrong than finding an unlocked con box and helping yourself. Or re-using a stamp you know has been used, but the postman can't tell.

You're making an assumption that they were used in gameplay at the arcade though. If someone purchased a bunch of tokens (say someone bought 1000 Flynn Lives tokens from ElecTRONica or something to use in their personal arcade) and then sold a game with those tokens in it, would it be OK to use?
Another scenario:
Chuck E Cheese doesn't usually sell their games, so I can't imagine a situation where one would find tokens for CEC in a machine. But lets use Namco as an example. You buy a used game from Namco arcade, there's 5 bucks in Namco tokens in there. Again, Morality aside, legally speaking, since the tokens were purchased from Namco (as the machine and all of it's contents were bought from Namco) legally speaking, I would say it is perfectly legal to use said tokens in Namco Arcades.
Of course these are very specific situations.

 

[AUSyTyIN]

Answer these two questions;

1. What is the purpose of a token, ticket, wrist band, stamp, etc.?

2. Why are the tokens you found in the coin box?

P.S. Google is scarry fast. This thread is already #1 for "theft of services arcade tokens"

1. To prove that you paid for a service being provided, which in this case, money was exchanged between myself and the arcade location in question for property.

2. They were loose in the machine, not in the coin box.

 

[SuperSprint]

(PS - You DO know I am playing Devils Advocate... right?)

I know YOU are. But some people here just got an idea and are already placing orders with noice....

I've only once found tokens/quarters in a coin box. I find them at the bottom of the cab... in the bezel area... CP area... etc. Those have been paid for but not used... right?

I thought about those, and left it out because it muddied the water. I would say bezel area and console are a definite yes. They didn't bounce out of the coin bucket and up 2 feet. It was paid for, lost, and remains unused. The bottom is 75/25. Could have been one from "on the glass" or a coin mech misfeed. Or it could have been dropped by the operator during collection. All in all, odds are pretty good it wasn't used. Now if you find a thousand of them down there, that's a different story...

You're making an assumption that they were used in gameplay at the arcade though. If someone purchased a bunch of tokens (say someone bought 1000 Flynn Lives tokens from ElecTRONica or something to use in their personal arcade) and then sold a game with those tokens in it, would it be OK to use?

Yes, and that is the assumption a "reasonable person" would make unless they knew otherwise. The collector buying specific commercial tokens for use in a home arcade doesn't happen in 99.999% of the cases, so unless you had specific knowledge it's just a self-rationalization for theft.

But lets use Namco as an example. You buy a used game from Namco arcade, there's 5 bucks in Namco tokens in there. Again, Morality aside, legally speaking, since the tokens were purchased from Namco (as the machine and all of it's contents were bought from Namco) legally speaking, I would say it is perfectly legal to use said tokens in Namco Arcades.

In this very specific case, you could argue that Namco sold you a game and tossed in tokens for use in their arcade as a bonus. But that gets back to the whole "found $X in a game, must I tell the seller" debate. Which at it's core is all about the sellers intent vs.their responsibility to empty the machine.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't do it. Not for fear of getting caught, but because I run a business and so does he/she. I expect to be paid for my services, and a extend the same courtesy to him. If you bought the machine directly, it's a coin toss. Use your own judgment. But if you bought it second or third hand and are now making lots of assumptions about how/why they got there, you are rationalizing why you aren't stealing. And if you have to ask....

 

[ArcRevival]

Are you really that butt-hurt Dave?

No, I just find it funny that people are dissecting a hypothetical situation so much but will look the other way when it's a girl.
Just saying...

When are you moving to Cali?

Why, are you getting a little jealous ?

 

[FrizzleFried]

Awe... I don't think you're going to see a mass buy-out of tokens by members here to use at their local arcade...

(A) What local arcade? If you're lucky enough to have one near by, you're likely one of of the regulars there and would never consider screwing over the local 'cade...

(B) Is there a (B)?



We're talking about quarters here folks... at one time (back when I was 10) a prized commodity that was to be relished and spent sparingly... but now? Pffft... I have a coffee can full...

 

[mattosborn]

I think most arcades would like to have their tokens back (having new tokens made every year to replace losses is just another expense to them). Sure, you could walk up to the counter and offer to give them your stash of found tokens, but I'm pretty sure you'd get a bewildered look followed by "Why don't you just use them?".

 

[FrizzleFried]

No, I just find it funny that people are dissecting a hypothetical situation so much but will look the other way when it's a girl.
Just saying...



Why, are you getting a little jealous ?

I actually removed my post after thinking about it... but since you responded...

ARE YOU SERIOUS? Jealous that you're going to Cali? Surely you jest. Hell, you were a staunch "CALIFORNIA SUCKS" guy yourself... that is... until you decided to move back (for the games or for the girl?).

PS: Dave... you're the one who brought up anything to do with a girl in this "fun" little debate. You could apply your "girl" logic to just about any thread here Dave...

IE:

1. I bet you guys would give RAM CONTROLS a pass if Dave/Adam/Dam/Jim were a GIRL!!!

2. I bet you guys would give Noice a pass on his finances if he was a GIRL!!!

3. I bet you guys would think the Star Wars Chair guy was a GOOD GUY if he was a GIRL!!!

4. I bet you guys would have no problem with people parting out games if they were all GIRLS!!!

EDIT: 1 more: I bet you guys would have no problem about me terrorizing people because their decisions don't align with my way of thinking [edit-in RE: to parting out games]... IF I WAS A GIRL!!!

See where I am going Dave? Silly, huh?

 

[MrBungle]

 

[ArcRevival]

I actually removed my post after thinking about it... but since you responded...

ARE YOU SERIOUS? Jealous that you're going to Cali? Surely you jest. Hell, you were a staunch "CALIFORNIA SUCKS" guy yourself... that is... until you decided to move back (for the games or for the girl?).

I am serious. And ya, there are a LOT of things about CA that do suck. One thing about Idaho is for sure, I have met more dishonest arcade collectors here than in CA. Added another one to my list the other day. One you know quite well.

PS: Dave... you're the one who brought up anything to do with a girl in this "fun" little debate. You could apply your "girl" logic to just about any thread here Dave...

IE:

1. I bet you guys would give RAM CONTROLS a pass if Dave/Adam/Dam/Jim were a GIRL!!!

2. I bet you guys would give Noice a pass on his finances if he was a GIRL!!!

3. I bet you guys would think the Star Wars Chair guy was a GOOD GUY if he was a GIRL!!!

4. I bet you guys would have no problem with people parting out games if they were all GIRLS!!!

EDIT: 1 more: I bet you guys would have no problem about me terrorizing people because their decisions don't align with my way of thinking [edit-in RE: to parting out games]... IF I WAS A GIRL!!!

See where I am going Dave? Silly, huh?

Sad part is that this is probably accurate. Dave would be a hero, Noice would get offered money, The chair would have sold, and the part about a girl parting a game was all ready proven.

 

[ArcRevival]

I guess if I have to ask, the answer is probably no. A person could go down to their local arcade and buy tokens and measure the size so that they could go online and buy a whole bunch of them for cheap and use them in the arcade. Is that considered "wrong"? You didn't steal anything beacause you bought the tokens in both instances. However, you would be able to get the tokens in mass quantities for much cheaper than at the arcade. So is this "giving yourself a discount" or "stealing a service"? I guess that's kind of the same thing. Thoughts?

it would be wrong. Even for a girl.

 

[RedWolfJC]

Yes, and that is the assumption a "reasonable person" would make unless they knew otherwise. The collector buying specific commercial tokens for use in a home arcade doesn't happen in 99.999% of the cases, so unless you had specific knowledge it's just a self-rationalization for theft.

Just so you know(in case I wasn't clear) I am also playing devils advocate... That being said, the scenario (again a very specific one) the poster presented was that there were a bunch of Chuck E Cheese tokens in their machine. Being that CEC doesn't usually sell their machines, it is reasonable to question where they came from. Did a person spend a ton of money buying CEC tokens to use in their home machine? Not every game owner knows about all of the resources out there, and may have thought that was the only way to get tokens for their machine...
Of course that brings up another legal question, if you "purchase" a bunch of tokens and walk out of the establishment with them, is that stealing?

In this very specific case, you could argue that Namco sold you a game and tossed in tokens for use in their arcade as a bonus. But that gets back to the whole "found $X in a game, must I tell the seller" debate. Which at it's core is all about the sellers intent vs.their responsibility to empty the machine.

Except that Namco always (or at least is supposed to always) removes their token mechs from their games prior to selling them. Even if they didn't, and they tossed in a few extra tokens for you, I would think that legally they would have to specify, "Here's a few tokens for you to use at home, these cannot be used here"
Again, I'm looking at this from a "Legal" standpoint, not a moral one.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't do it.

Neither would I.