Is it worth it to mod an NES top loader?

[MaximRecoil]

Dude, you guys take this way too seriously. I love my NES as much as the next Nintendo fan, but it's just NES.

You have a Donkey Kong machine? That has "8-bit quality" graphics that are as crude or cruder than typical NES games. Would you trade your RGB connection for an RF connection on that machine?

 

[Tighe]

I never noticed any fatigue on the connector, those replacements are too tight and have worn off the contacts on some of my carts. I went back to the original connector I saved and used deoxIT and the connector works great. The nice with with deoxIT is that I don't have to keep cleaning it, if you use the formulation that prevents future oxidation. Where the deoxIT really helped was when I got my Galaga, It was giving ROM errors, I pulled each chip cleaned the pins with an eraser, then used deoxit on the pins and the socket. turned it back on it it worked great, and here now 2 years later no problems.

A new connector is about the same price as a can of DeoxIT, plus it is already clean and the pins don't have years' worth of metal fatigue, which can prevent them from holding their tension against the PCB pins well enough for a good connection and/or can cause problems to recur not long after they are fixed.

Nothing wrong with cleaning (there are various effective methods), but I'd rather start with a new connector to eliminate problems that can stem from fatiqued pins. If needed, the new connector can be cleaned later on down the road (though I haven't had to yet with mine, but I do make sure the game's PCB card edge pins are clean before putting it in the console).

Disabling the lockout chip is particularly helpful too, because that part is the most sensitive to a less-than-perfect connection, and is the actual mechanism which causes the "blinking" with a "blinking NES". Top loaders don't have the lockout chip to begin with, so they never "blink".

 

[MaximRecoil]

I never noticed any fatigue on the connector, those replacements are too tight and have worn off the contacts on some of my carts.

My replacement connectors are no tighter than a typical card edge connector like you find on an Atari 2600, ColecoVision, NES 2, SNES, and pretty much every other cartridge-based console ever made.

They are supposed to be tight; that's what ensures a good connection. The only reason the stock connectors are loose is because of that weird pseudo-ZIF mechanism that forces the card edge into the connector pins when you push it down. Using that ZIF mechanism flexes the pins quite a bit (a lot more than the pins in a normal edge connector get flexed), and those pins aren't exactly made out of spring steel.

 

[Mattroid]

Dude, you guys take this way too seriously. I love my NES as much as the next Nintendo fan, but it's just NES.

"JUST" an NES?!?!?!

 

[nesjess]

"JUST" an NES?!?!?!

LOL! Man, I better not make a negative comment about the Virtual Boy.

 

[MitchO]

I've heard that the A/V modification doesn't completely get rid of the lines on the top loader.

It depends which A/V mod you do. The one I used removed the lines and has a great picture.

Mitch

 

[ArcadeGreg]

Dude, you guys take this way too seriously. I love my NES as much as the next Nintendo fan, but it's just NES.

WRONG. Just NES? It's my life bro.

 

[RetroHacker]

I never liked the top loader because it just feels so cheap - and the vertical lines are pretty annoying. I much prefer the normal front loading Nintendo. The RF picture looks great - and it does have A/V outputs if you wanted to connect it to a video monitor or newer TV. My bedroom television doesn't have A/V inputs, so I'm using the RF. Picture looks perfect.

New connector on the NES goes a LONG way. The other half is to CLEAN YOUR GAMES! I can't stress this enough. Thoroughly clean the edge connector in the game cartridge with alcohol on a q-tip. I usually take the games apart to clean them, makes it easier to get them really clean. Avoid abrasives - you don't want to take the plating off, just clean the cartridge.

I haven't had any problems with the new "tight" connector damaging the games. The connector will loosen up after a moderate amount of use.

That said, the top loader isn't half bad. You want horrible? Get one of those "FC Twin/Retro Duo/Chinese Bootleg Happy Game Time Machine/whatever" consoles. The SNES portion isn't half bad, but the NES emulation is horrible. The sound is tinny and weird, and it doesn't play some games (Castlevania 3 comes to mind). And, it doesn't have RF, so it's a pain to hook up unless all you own is really new TV's.

-Ian

 

[nesjess]

You have a Donkey Kong machine? That has "8-bit quality" graphics that are as crude or cruder than typical NES games. Would you trade your RGB connection for an RF connection on that machine?

Just saw this.

Like I said, you guys take this way too seriously. I was kidding before when I said RF is part of the experience. To answer your question, no, I wouldn't trade RGB for RF on DK. That's absurd. Also, I never said I prefer RF or said it was better than RGB. Like I said, I actually use A/V out on my original NES because it's so much better (and easier to hook up).

Nothing but love here. You guys need to chill and just play your NES like grown men.

 

[shane7951]

Does anyone know somebody who would mod my toploader? Any idea how much that would run?

 

[MaximRecoil]

Just saw this.

Like I said, you guys take this way too seriously. I was kidding before when I said RF is part of the experience. To answer your question, no, I wouldn't trade RGB for RF on DK. That's absurd. Also, I never said I prefer RF or said it was better than RGB. Like I said, I actually use A/V out on my original NES because it's so much better (and easier to hook up).

Nothing but love here. You guys need to chill and just play your NES like grown men.

Here are two things which are purely a product of your imagination:

1. That anyone here is taking anything "way too seriously".
2. That anyone here needs to "chill".

 

[nesjess]

Here are two things which are purely a product of your imagination:

1. That anyone here is taking anything "way too seriously".
2. That anyone here needs to "chill".

LOL.

When guys do full page writeups of the technicalities between RF vs. RGB, Original vs. Top Loader, new connector vs. cleaning, etc. it seems like they are pretty serious. But I did get the sarcasm from most guys and I hope you sensed mine.

But regardless, everyone has their preference and it's all good.

I just have a problem with guys who honestly say the Virtual Boy was a good console [trying to provoke pointless discussion].

 

[Mattroid]

I just have a problem with guys who honestly say the Virtual Boy was a good console [trying to provoke pointless discussion].

ASKLJFGLAsl;fflgbsfgbogegfsabga!!!!!!!!1

 

[kencinder]

I just have a problem with guys who honestly say the Virtual Boy was a good console [trying to provoke pointless discussion].

The Virtual what?

 

[FMonk]

The Virtual what?

You know what he's talking about, your emoticon clearly shows that you were blinded by the thing

 

[Tighe]

you know what he's talking about, your emoticon clearly shows that you were blinded by the thing :d

aaahhhh haaa haaa haaa haaa haa haaa haaa haaaa....\

Edit:
BTW I hate it when this forums uncaps stuff! Sometimes I want to shout stuff!

 

[Phetishboy]

I run my Top loader thru the original RF jack to an old woodside 13 inch TV and it looks great. I only noticed the vertical lines on Tetris and Wizards and Warriors. As for Pacman, Karnov, Kid Icarus and Ghosts N Goblins, no lines detectable at this point. Maybe it's the brightness/ contrast on the TV. I'll test some more carts tonight. After owning 3 original NES's and putting new 72 pin connectors on 2 of them, I love my top loader. I put in my cart and it fires up the first time, every time. I love nostalgia too, but in this case, I choose reliability.

 

[MaximRecoil]

I run my Top loader thru the original RF jack to an old woodside 13 inch TV and it looks great. I only noticed the vertical lines on Tetris and Wizards and Warriors. As for Pacman, Karnov, Kid Icarus and Ghosts N Goblins, no lines detectable at this point. Maybe it's the brightness/ contrast on the TV. I'll test some more carts tonight. After owning 3 original NES's and putting new 72 pin connectors on 2 of them, I love my top loader. I put in my cart and it fires up the first time, every time. I love nostalgia too, but in this case, I choose reliability.

Did you disable the lockout chip on your front loaders? I think that's as important (or more so) for reliability than what you do with the 72-pin connector. You won't be missing anything by disabling it on the front loader, because your top loader doesn't even have a lockout chip to begin with.

 

[Phetishboy]

Did you disable the lockout chip on your front loaders? I think that's as important (or more so) for reliability than what you do with the 72-pin connector. You won't be missing anything by disabling it on the front loader, because your top loader doesn't even have a lockout chip to begin with.

No I did not. Not even sure what a lock out chip is. I'm just a tired old man who wants to enjoy the occasional NES cart to relive the year 1986. Please don't try to confuse me with your technical jargon. You know too much.

 

[RetroHacker]

No I did not. Not even sure what a lock out chip is. I'm just a tired old man who wants to enjoy the occasional NES cart to relive the year 1986. Please don't try to confuse me with your technical jargon. You know too much.

Well, if you don't want to be confused, don't read below...

In order to prevent people from making piles of crappy games for the console (like what happened to the Atari 2600), Nintendo used a lockout system. Basically, a lockout chip sits in the console, and controls the reset pin of the processor. The lockout chip sits there, resetting the processor once per second, looking for a key chip on it's input pins. These input pins are connected directly to some of the pins on the Nintendo's 72 pin cartridge connector - and are the couple pins on the very edge, closest to the ridges that run down the front of the cartridge.

So, inside every cartridge is another lockout chip, configured in "key" mode. When the lockout chip in the Nintendo can communicate with the key chip in the cartridge, it stops resetting the processor and the game plays.

The problem is, this is very sensitive to dirt on the cartridge, and it's made worse by the fact that the pins on the very edge of the connector tend not to make as good a contact - and the edge pins are hardest to clean on the cartridge. So, if anything happens to this communication, the NES sits there resetting once a second - the flashing gray screen/power light. Sometimes you can even manage to get a game that loads the title screen perfectly, but keeps blinking. The program is trying to run, but the lockout chip is resetting the processor.

So, if you disable the lockout chip, it won't continuously reset the processor, making one less thing to go wrong. All that needs to be done is to clip pin 4 on that lockout chip. This is usually tied to 5v in the Nintendo, but contains enough internal pulldown so clipping the pin ties it to logic 0. This works because the same exact lockout chip is used in both the console and the cartridge. The console's chip is configured to be a lock (pin 4 high) and the cartridge chip is configured as a key (pin 4 low). By clipping the pin, and making the console's chip behave as a key, it won't reset the processor.

Third party games got around the lockout chip in a weird way, "zapping" it with a weird negative voltage, causing the chip to lock up and stop resetting the CPU. This is why some third party games have that switch on the back, and why sometimes they blink three or four times before they load. Later versions of the NES included a diode to prevent these from working as well. The only third party to really truly crack the lockout chip was Tengen (Atari), reverse engineering it and making a clone.

-Ian