Is Double Dragon the most flawed game ever?

[MaximRecoil]

it actually does get Pillarboxed a little.

Double Dragon is not pillarboxed at all:

The Double Dragon programmers did not program in any 'boxing of any sort. For an example of a game that is 'boxed, see Street Fighter II on the SNES; it is letterboxed:

The width of the game is only 240 pixels so typically it gets stretched out a bit to fill the game.

240 pixels is irrelevant. With a CRT, the digital resolution has nothing to do with whether the raster fills the screen or not. To fill the screen you use the vertical and horizontal size and position controls as I said before. Most games will have a different display size and position on the screen; anyone who has a JAMMA cabinet and has swapped a variety of game boards from different manufacturers in and out knows all about this; you simply have to adjust the monitor for each one that requires it.

Double Dragon's graphics are designed to be displayed at a 4:3 aspect ratio (the same applies to any pre-widescreen horizontal arcade game), regardless of the aspect ratio of its digital resolution. If you are not adjusting it to fill the screen, you are not viewing it in its intended display aspect ratio.

The awesomeness of the easy to swap boards cab gets ruined DD is in the rotation and you like to fill out the width of the screen. I end up living with the pillarbox or I need to adjust the width everytime I go to and from DD in my cab.

Most boards require monitor adjustment when you swap them; the only ones that usually don't are ones from the same manufacturer (such as swapping between Ikari Warriors and Victory Road). Having a remote adjustment board on the monitor makes it pain-free.

 

[jethrokiller]

I'll also say. BITD I was like a master of this game with my brother. We didn't even have to rely on the infamous elbow to win the game. We always got to the end and saved free men for the spears to get by.

The spears and the blocks sucked. It was like totally random everytime, you had to just hope for the best. That's where most people's game ended. That or the jump over the bridge on level 3, alot of people went for a drink there.

 

[MaximRecoil]

The spears and the blocks sucked. It was like totally random everytime, you had to just hope for the best. That's where most people's game ended. That or the jump over the bridge on level 3, alot of people went for a drink there.

I think I have the spears and blocks mostly figured out. For the blocks, just stay as low on the screen as you can (gives you more time to react) and be cautious; i.e., walk a little, stop, walk a little more. When you see one coming out, back up. I don't have the world's greatest reaction times, but I can completely avoid getting hit by them most of the time doing it that way.

As far as I can tell, the first set of spears will always miss you if you just walk to it and past it without hesitating. With the second set, I usually walk straight toward them without hesitating after beating the two guys and jump just as my head is under the first one. That usually works. I'm not sure if the jumping is necessary, but that's what I remember people doing when I was a kid in the arcade.

The broken bridge is easy, just jump when you are about 1/4" from the edge. People die there because it looks like a longer jump than it is and they try to walk right to the visible edge before jumping, at which point, the game often won't register the jump input (another one of its flaws).

 

[PrairieDillo]

I said that it "gets pillar boxed" of course they didn't design it to be that way.

so of course it wasn't programmed that way but my point was that when swapping in and out different boards (which i do w/ this particular cab) it doesn't fill the full with of the screen.

Yes it can be adjusted and probably most games should be tuned. The effect is that DD doesn't fill the screen or your other game is too stretched out. My point still stands that the hassle with tuning it diminishes the awesomeness about how easy it is to swap boards in this cab.

So what monitor do you have in your DD that has a remote board with a width adjustment on there HUH???? Every DD I've seen has a 19" K7000 in there. I haven't seen too many remote boards with a width adjustment anyways. (Although most monitors I have are in fact K7000's.) 2/3 of my DD cabs are K7000 I haven't picked up my 3rd DD cab but I bet the $75 I paid for it that it's also got NO REMOTE BOARD. Jess's DD cab which I serviced the monitor is also a K7000 with no remote board.

240 is pretty narrow so effectively it's a drastic difference when swapping boards. This is the context of my point where DD gets pillar boxed when switching out from other boards... It is a hassle to pull it out and adjust the monitor width.

I have have been swapping boards from the same manufacturer. Rastan -> Cadash -> Growl -> F2 BB3 -> and my Taito Gnet board.

Seems like you are going out of your way to prove me wrong. I hope you had fun with that.

You can be either trying to educate me on something that I'm wrong about or you are just trying to make some feel ignorant about something while you pat yourself on the back/beat your chest.

The only reason why I spoke up is just because DD is far from the most broken game by todays standards and you turned off someone from wanting one with this thread.

I'm out

 

[MaximRecoil]

I said that it "gets pillar boxed" of course they didn't design it to be that way.

You said it in reply to my statement that the game is not 'boxed. Your own out-of-adjustment monitor's effect on the game's appearance is irrelevant to my statement.

so of course it wasn't programmed that way but my point was that when swapping in and out different boards (which i do w/ this particular cab) it doesn't fill the full with of the screen.

That may be your point now, but you originally simply said that "the resolution isn't full screen", and that that is a flaw. That is what I originally replied to. I'm not sure how you can call something that is caused by your improperly adjusted monitor, a flaw. That would be like someone saying that one of the flaws of Double Dragon is that the picture is blurry, when it's actually a case of e.g., the sharpness control on the flyback being out of adjustment.

Yes it can be adjusted and probably most games should be tuned. The effect is that DD doesn't fill the screen or your other game is too stretched out. My point still stands that the hassle with tuning it diminishes the awesomeness about how easy it is to swap boards in this cab.

Like I said, this happens whenever you swap various boards from various manufacturers. It is not as if every game out there exept for Double Dragon outputs a raster image of the exact size and in the exact position on the screen.

So what monitor do you have in your DD that has a remote board with a width adjustment on there HUH???? Every DD I've seen has a 19" K7000 in there. I haven't seen too many remote boards with a width adjustment anyways. (Although most monitors I have are in fact K7000's.) 2/3 of my DD cabs are K7000 I haven't picked up my 3rd DD cab but I bet the $75 I paid for it that it's also got NO REMOTE BOARD. Jess's DD cab which I serviced the monitor is also a K7000 with no remote board.

I don't have a Double Dragon cabinet (yet), I have the board, which I use in a Dynamo HS-1. If you want a remote adjustment board, you need to buy a different monitor. Mine had a tired K7000 in it originally which I replaced it with a new Happ Vision Pro (which has a remote adjustment board).

I have have been swapping boards from the same manufacturer. Rastan -> Cadash -> Growl -> F2 BB3 -> and my Taito Gnet board.

Double Dragon isn't a Taito game, it is a Taito license. The boards were built by the same company that developed the game, Technos.

The only reason why I spoke up is just because DD is far from the most broken game

Do you know of a popular arcade game from the '80s or '90s that had more flaws?

you turned off someone from wanting one with this thread.

I took that as a joke, but if he was being serious, where has he been? Did he just decide out of the blue that he wanted Double Dragon without ever having played the game? Anyone who has played through this game a few times is aware of all the things I pointed out. Many people still like the game however, in spite of its flaws (like myself).

 

[jethrokiller]

I've really noticed that too on DD boards, the sides of the screen are really cut off, like inches on each side. Double Dragon has a really short screen horizontal wise, more then almost all other jamma pcbs.

 

[ModCity]

The best parts of a DD game happen in slow motion. I like that

 

[stu]

I picked one up a week ago, Thursday...
Every bit as I remember.... a terrific beat down, followed by some lag, but it is ever so satisfying. Can I mention how awesome the cab is? Well, the artwork is what I find brilliant. Sure, cab construction is quite nice for quick JAMMA swaps.
This could be the second best generic art design, behind Taito, of course. Although it depends on the color scheme with Taito.

 

[tec9]

Double Dragon is a good game.....even with all the flaws! I can't dislike them though....I remember taking full advantage of them back in the day at the arcade. I could often beat Double Dragon with one credit back in the day. (the elbow smash works on every enemy!) I always thought the fourth stage wall pillars were tough. Of all the flaws the slow down is the most annoying of them all. Double Dragon II was okay.....but Double Dragon III was a real stinker!
-Mark

 

[Tighe]

Double Dragon is a good game.....even with all the flaws! I can't dislike them though....I remember taking full advantage of them back in the day at the arcade. I could often beat Double Dragon with one credit back in the day. (the elbow smash works on every enemy!) I always thought the fourth stage wall pillars were tough. Of all the flaws the slow down is the most annoying of them all. Double Dragon II was okay.....but Double Dragon III was a real stinker!
-Mark

The funny thing is that DDII on the NES was the worst one, and 3 wasn't bad at all, once you get used to the game it is really fun. I never played the arcade version, I will have to MAME it up.

 

[80scoinops]

All three are great games, but: Renegade > Double Dragon II > Double Dragon.

I prefer the "attack left / attack right" button scheme of Renegade and DDII. *shrug*

 

[MaximRecoil]

All three are great games, but: Renegade > Double Dragon II > Double Dragon.

I prefer the "attack left / attack right" button scheme of Renegade and DDII. *shrug*

The control scheme is even worse in Renegage than in DDII in my opinion. DDII has the same "attack left / attack right" thing, but at least it doesn't automatically turn you to face the opponent all the time like Renegade does. This means that in Renegade you can't use the back kick whenever you want to (because when you get automatically turned to face opponents, your attack becomes a punch), while in DDII you could use the back kick exclusively if you wanted to, because you can always keep your back to opponents if you want.

I don't like Renegade at all actually. I don't like the graphics, the fight mechanics, the hit detection, the sound effects and music, the lack of true side-scrolling, the cheapness of the enemies, the blandness of the enemies (no one to compare to a green Abobo or Machine Gun Willy), and the blandness of the stages; it doesn't have anything even close to as cool as the elevators / conveyor belt and enemy base stages in DD; one stage even has a solid blue floor like something out of an Atari 2600 game.

 

[Tighe]

The control scheme is even worse in Renegage than in DDII in my opinion. DDII has the same "attack left / attack right" thing, but at least it doesn't automatically turn you to face the opponent all the time like Renegade does. This means that in Renegade you can't use the back kick whenever you want to (because when you get automatically turned to face opponents, your attack becomes a punch), while in DDII you could use the back kick exclusively if you wanted to, because you can always keep your back to opponents if you want.

I don't like Renegade at all actually. I don't like the graphics, the fight mechanics, the hit detection, the sound effects and music, the lack of true side-scrolling, the cheapness of the enemies, the blandness of the enemies (no one to compare to a green Abobo or Machine Gun Willy), and the blandness of the stages; it doesn't have anything even close to as cool as the elevators / conveyor belt and enemy base stages in DD; one stage even has a solid blue floor like something out of an Atari 2600 game.

So which is better Irem's Vigilante or Renegade?

Also where does Bad Dudes fit in to you?

 

[bradd]

Is Double Dragon the most flawed game ever?

two words - captain silver.

 

[Arcade74]

Why so hard on Double Dragon. Come on! Remember when you got to the end of level 4, and that fast moving green MrT came out. That was a good fight. And the last level where those stones came out from nowhere, how the hell are we passing this part. And seeing the last boss for the 1st time, wow.

On a side note. I heard rumors you can climb to the top of the balcony at the end level. How is it done? Having one of the MrT throw you up there?

 

[nesjess]

Why so hard on Double Dragon. Come on!

Because some guys are perfectionists who like to knit pick every little thing just to prove how smart they are. They focus on a game's "flaws" rather than the things that make it loved and nostalgic.

 

[MaximRecoil]

So which is better Irem's Vigilante or Renegade?

Also where does Bad Dudes fit in to you?

I consider the strictly 2D games like Vigilante, Kung-Fu Master, and Bad Dudes to be in a different category than the so-called "2.5D" brawling games that Double Dragon popularized. I don't care much for Vigilante but Bad Dudes is okay. I played Bad Dudes in the arcade a lot as a kid, but it was never one of my favorites; unlike Double Dragon which is in my top 10 list of all-time favorite arcade games.

On a side note. I heard rumors you can climb to the top of the balcony at the end level. How is it done? Having one of the MrT throw you up there?

I heard that same rumor when I was a kid. I would think that if it could be done, it would be on YouTube or something by now. I'll have to look around for a video of someone doing it.

Because some guys are perfectionists who like to knit pick every little thing just to prove how smart they are. They focus on a game's "flaws" rather than the things that make it loved and nostalgic.

Your amateur psychoanalysis is noted ... and dismissed.

By the way, I think you missed the point of this thread; i.e., the irony of a game with so many glaring flaws (maybe more glaring flaws than any other popular arcade game of the era) also being so much fun to play.

 

[Magog]

Why so hard on Double Dragon. Come on! Remember when you got to the end of level 4, and that fast moving green MrT came out. That was a good fight. And the last level where those stones came out from nowhere, how the hell are we passing this part. And seeing the last boss for the 1st time, wow.

On a side note. I heard rumors you can climb to the top of the balcony at the end level. How is it done? Having one of the MrT throw you up there?

Put your back to the wall just past the balcony, and stand right at the corner just past the grey part. Abobo will do his slap thing you will fall akwardly against the wall. When you stand up you press and hold up and you will float up. You know you fell correctly when you kinda spin as you fall yet don't move forward or backwards. Abobo will hit you when you get to a certain height and you will fall back and land on the balcony.

It has been a few years but that is how I recall to do it. Nothing really special, you just get to get up there, not much to it after that. You can do it in other spots too. The float up the wall trick. I haven't played the game in YEARS, but memory serves me there is a part with Abobo's tossing boulders around. I think you can do it there too.

 

[nesjess]

Your amateur psychoanalysis is noted ... and dismissed.

By the way, I think you missed the point of this thread; i.e., the irony of a game with so many glaring flaws (maybe more glaring flaws than any other popular arcade game of the era) also being so much fun to play.

Hence, my point about guys trying to prove how smart they are. I get that you said you enjoyed the game, but to do a huge thread about its "glaring flaws" seems odd to me.

The real point in my response was to point out that you go a lot out of the way to prove others wrong. You said in another thread that you don't take things so seriously, but clearly that's not the case with your responses and the fact that you feel you have the authority to "dismiss" others. I hope you get a lot joy by doing so and that you're smart enough to sense my sarcasm.

 

[MaximRecoil]

Hence, my point about guys trying to prove how smart they are.

Since when does it require any unusual level of intelligence to point out flaws in a game?

I get that you said you enjoyed the game, but to do a huge thread about its "glaring flaws" seems odd to me.

That's because you missed the point of the thread, as I said before (and you are still missing it).

The real point in my response was to point out that you go a lot out of the way to prove others wrong.

Posting messages on a message board is not going out of my way. Going out of my way to prove someone wrong would be e.g. if I went over to someone's house to do it.

You said in another thread that you don't take things so seriously, but clearly that's not the case with your responses

Your attempted crystal ball reading is noted ... and dismissed.

and the fact that you feel you have the authority to "dismiss" others.

The reason that your amateur psychoanalysis can be safely dismissed is self-evident; i.e., because it is an amateur (as well as "armchair") psychoanalysis.