Intellectual Property - What would you do?

bit_slicer

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Ok I already know which way I'm leaning on this, but I wanted to put it up to a KLOV shitter-stall-poll and find out what you think. Here's the scenario:

You've been building cabinets for a few years now and have gotten really good. You have a website and everything where you sell your primo cabinets. Last year you had a really good idea and decided to look into repro-ing and selling a rare and much-wanted cabinet. (No, you really do actually make and sell the cabs instead of ripping people off! :)) You spend about 12 months and many, many hours and a good amount of cash in coming up with the plans, cutting test cabinets, wasting wood, re-starting, and FINALLY after more than a year you have detailed plans for your new cab. They sell like hotcakes! Everyone wants one and for the first few weeks you're reaping the rewards of your hard work. *Now you've made just enough money to cover your expenses!*

Then suddenly people begin to realize that they could save a few bucks if they built the cabs themselves, or had their local shop build them. Well, they just need the plan details, CNC router file, etc from you. What do you say? Hook a brother up! I couldn't afford the cab anyway with shipping and all.

What would you do? Would you tell him to go pound sand and if he wants the cab to go buy it from your website? Or do you give him the plans knowing full-well that they will end up on the internet and the cab sales slow to a trickle?
 
People should get paid for their work especially if it's their source of income. If it was a labor of love sorta deal where you wanted to share it with the world ala freeware then that's your decision but other than that, they need to go pound sand.
 
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i think once sales drop, at some point they should...i mean you are dealing with a limited market with this sort of thing...then release the files if you want and share...if not then dont...nothing says you have to share your own work with others, but it's a cool thing to do.

if you are still getting a lot of orders and recovering costs then it would be kinda silly to do...but if you have broken even or made a little then it depends on if you are in this to make money or as a hobby...and that's something a poll can't answer.
 
Pass

There is difference in "hooking a brother up" and just being cheap.

if you can't afford one, guess what you don't get one...

mh
 
I would ignore the requests for plans. It's your work you put into it, let them figure it out on their own if they want.
 
Ummm... no. No I wouldn't "hook a brother up". To me, hooking a brother up would be giving him a discount and NOT sharing all your important data files with. :)
 
People should get paid for their work especially if it's their source of income. If it was a lobor of love sorta deal where you wanted to share it with the world ala freeware then that's your decision but other than that, they need to go pound sand.

What he said... There is nothing "good and honorable" about taking money out of your retirement fund and giving it to other people to support their hobbies....

Unless you're planning on licensing the design to someone like DPTWiz, I'd sell cabinets until that dies out. Then I'd sell plans (hard copy ONLY) until that dies out. Then I'd put them on a website for viewing and put adwords on the sidebar...
 
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I would go with the "tell him to go pound sand" method. Why shoot yourself in the foot? Just to be nice?

Or, if you are going to give him the plans make him pay for them. A decent fee too.
 
And exactly whose IP is at stake here? Since the cabinet plans are actually owned by the original manufacturer, a cabinet maker is only reverse-engineering (fancy term for "copying") their design. Nobody in the aftermarket has any stake in them whatsoever.

Cabinetmaking is being paid for the time and craftsmanship. Securing a design is just part of catering to your market, assuring business in the first place. Whether you steal it directly from a blueprint, copy it from a physical original, or pay someone to come up with it is irrelevant.

That being said, the process of copying original designs is time-consuming, and the copier has no obligation to release their findings to anyone except the original manufacturer in legal proceedings. You can give them away, but you sure as shit can't sell them.
 
That being said, the process of copying original designs is time-consuming, and the copier has no obligation to release their findings to anyone except the original manufacturer in legal proceedings. You can give them away, but you sure as shit can't sell them.

Oh yeah, that. Forget I said that. :)

Still, he doesn't have to make it easier for others.
 
And exactly whose IP is at stake here? Since the cabinet plans are actually owned by the original manufacturer, a cabinet maker is only reverse-engineering (fancy term for "copying") their design.

You can give them away, but you sure as shit can't sell them.

Normally I would side with your argument, but in this case I cannot. Unless the specific shape of the cabinet was trademarked (which it may well have been), the actual blueprints are intellectual property (and protected by copyright) but the finished product is not. To then measure the product and create your own plans is to create new IP.

Interestingly, I believe that if the cabinet shape is trademarked you could sell instructions/plans detailing how to create one. Of course since "tempest" is trademarked, you would have to sell them under a generic name (i.e. tempest = vector tunnel game cabinet) but not the shape itself.

And of course all of that assumes the original IP holder gives a crap, which is not the case for most of these projects as evidenced by the proliferation of side art.
 
If I was the guy running the cabs... and had the plans... I'd consider whether the timing was right to SELL the plans at, say, 1/2 the cost of the whole cabinet itself knowing full well that yeah, once the plans are out there... they will be likely copied.

Is that time now? Is that time later? I don't know...

OR... option (B) would be to hold on to them ... sell as many cabs as possible... when it gets to the point it's obvious that the majority of folks wanting a cab has come and gone, be the "good guy" and release the plans at no charge to "the community"...
 
What would you do? Would you tell him to go pound sand and if he wants the cab to go buy it from your website? Or do you give him the plans knowing full-well that they will end up on the internet and the cab sales slow to a trickle?

I'd do what most software developers do....make money from it as long as possible, and then after profits die down, make it public domain. No sense trying to milk a dead cow.

Sorry, but if the guy doesn't have the cash to pony up, then he can get on Google and do the exact same legwork you did yourself to get the measurements, etc, instead of trying to ride your coattails.
 
nothing says you have to share your own work with others, but it's a cool thing to do.

+1.E6

And exactly whose IP is at stake here? Since the cabinet plans are actually owned by the original manufacturer, a cabinet maker is only reverse-engineering (fancy term for "copying") their design. Nobody in the aftermarket has any stake in them whatsoever.

the process of copying original designs is time-consuming, and the copier has no obligation to release their findings to anyone except the original manufacturer in legal proceedings. You can give them away, but you sure as shit can't sell them.

[IANAL, but I've had to deal with IP issues a lot at work.] There are numerous types of IP, including patents (utility & design), copyrights, trademarks, and TRADE SECRETS. It's possible that the original manufacturer (Atari?) had one or more utility and/or design patents relating to the cabinet. However, even if they did, it's almost certain they've expired by now. The CNC files and any detail drawings created by someone who "reverse-engineered" the cabinet design would be his IP, specifically his TRADE SECRETS. Sure, he can sell them.

Personally, I don't take this whole arcade game thing too seriously. I'm also a big fan of open source software and the copyleft concept. As a result, I've often kicked around the idea of creating an "Open Source Engineering" website to be a repository of technical data (dimensions, drawings, specifications, details, CNC files, 3D models, etc.) relating to arcade games. Everything would be donated, and shared freely for any and all who wish to attempt manufacturing. Ahh... to dream...
 
+1.E6
I've often kicked around the idea of creating an "Open Source Engineering" website to be a repository of technical data (dimensions, drawings, specifications, details, CNC files, 3D models, etc.) relating to arcade games. Everything would be donated, and shared freely for any and all who wish to attempt manufacturing. Ahh... to dream...

Then let's do it brutha. I've recreated a number of pin plastics, playfields and arcade side art, all in vector, that I've been holding onto for a few years and wouldn't mind parting with.
 
This sounds more like you want plans from Brett, than you have made a cabinet.. am I wrong?

Wrong, sorry. :) It's just a parallel analogy.

I guess the thing I'm wrestling with the most is you can either have a business OR you can have friends. It's been very difficult to have both sometimes. I've lost friends because of the business. I try to keep personal and business separate, but things can get awkward especially if the 'customer' is late with a payment or if I'm falling behind on work and there are delays. Shit, if I could quit my day job and repair boards all day for free I would! But only if I could get all my stuff for free too. But that's not going to happen. So here we are.

I think I'm going to keep my IP. I can't count the number of nights I've spent hovering over the logic analyzer trying to fix demon boards. A lot of times the shop orders looks deceptively short. A couple of line items can take hours or days. I don't do it for the money - believe me! But what little I do get I think I've earned.
 
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