Incredible HULK help please!

[QMAN97]

I have a 1979 Hulk I'm looking for some guidance on.

Here's the story......I picked this up for nothing because the play field was thrashed. We played it for a while before I picked up a new play field in VG condition without the plastics. I restored the "new" play field and noticed the 2 relays on the bottom were missing. I carefully soldered in the old play field relays, replaced the plastics and plugged in the game.

Now here's the problem.........

The original play field worked but the score displays and ball counter worked for the most part now I have lights in the back box only. The tilt relay is locked on but when I manually toggle it I have full play field lights can flip the flippers but no score displays. When I turn on the game the knocker fires once and that's it. I have checked all of the slam switches and they are in the correct state (open/closed).

I put in a new power supply when I bought it and it came with the NI-WUMPH board and I think the rotten dog driver. (It's new I just don't remember the maker). I have the original Gottlieb driver, also.

Now my wife said to purchase new CPU and driver board, plug them in and see what happens. If I did this would it just fry the new boards? Would this be a viable option to get things working?

I usually buy EM machines and this is the first digital/SS machine we have owned. I have a limited knowledge of how these work, but I'm willing to learn. I wouldn't mind taking it locally but I don't want to get hit with a $500-1000 bill for a game I have less than $300 in, and I would rather try to learn how to fix these machines.

Any help or guidance would be and is appreciated, my wife and son are wanting to play this game. I admit I want to try out the "new" play field, I put more than a few hours into the play field and Varathaned it and it came out great! (I think)

Thanks for any help! First pic is of the back box with the power on. Lights only no score display or ball counter.

John

 

[QMAN97]

Second pic is of play field. Power is on, lights on in back box none on play field unless I toggle the tilt relay.

 

[LyonsArcade]

Alright man, lets get into it. I hate seeing a cool one like that just sitting.

Your game isn't booting. that's why you don't have shit on the displays, and no lights.

The reason it isn't booting, is because the cpu has trouble, or you have a power supply problem.

So do this. Open the top door, and unplug everything except the power connector on the bottom of power supply. This will keep you from frying anything if you haven't fried anything yet.

After you do that, you need to open the bottom of the game and check all the fuses down there. Don't just look at them, you're going to need a multimeter to check them. Set it on 'ohms' or resistance, and check across the fuses themselves to see if they're showing 'shorted' or making good connection. A bad fuse will have high resistance (over an ohm or so). You may get one fuse that's got 2 or 3 ohms resistance because it's a very small fuse, 1/4 amp or something for the displays.

Once you check all those fuses, you need to move up to the power supply. Turn the game on, and on the top connector you'll see silkscreened 'ground' '5 volt' and '12 volt' (it may be -12 can't remember). Use the ground, and then carefully check the other pins to see if you have -12 and 5 volt.

After you figure that out, post back here what you find.

 

[QMAN97]

Hey LyonsArcade,

Thanks for the reply!

Alright, I did what you said and this is what I found........

Fuses are good all tested out fine.

I tested the power supply and got some weird readings.
I get -12.4v at the -12v pin
I get anywhere from 0.0 to 0.84v on the +5v pin.

The NI-WUMPH board I have came with the game when I purchased it in 2009-10? I have no idea how old it actually is. I don't know if that matters or if they have updated there boards.

Thanks again for the reply!

John

 

[LyonsArcade]

Alright. That was easy. Your power supply is bad, or the voltages going to it are bad.

Don't buy a new cpu or driver board, if they're already new they're probably fine.

On that power connector that's at the bottom of the power supply, with the game on, check the voltage between pins 1 and 2 (left most pins). Then use pin 3 as the ground, and check the voltages on pins 4 and 5. Then check the voltage between pins 6 and 7.

You should get 11.5 volts on the first two, on 4 and 5 you should get 14 volts, and on 6 and 7 you should get 69 volts. This is all on AC.

You're looking for missing voltages, if the voltages are doubled that's because I told you the wrong way to test it, lol hard to tell looking at it. If any are missing though, then you still have a problem in the fuse area. If all the voltages are there, then your power supply is bad (not putting out the 5 you need).

It can probably be easily repaired but if you dont' think you can pull that off you could buy another one.

 

[QMAN97]

Alright did that second test and got.......

Pins:

1-2 24.1v

3-4 25.3v

3-5 24.1v

6-7 73.4v

On a side note I slipped and grounded the -12v on the top of the power supply for a brief moment and the sound card "moaned".

If the power supply is new (I bought it because it had the old "big blue" tube in it) what caused it to fail?

 

[LyonsArcade]

Not sure what caused it to fail, but that looks like your problem to me. If you contact the guys you got it from, they can fix it for you.

 

[QMAN97]

Argh, I got it from Marco Specialties.

I need to order stuff for another pinball so I'll pick up another power supply.

Is there something causing the card to fail? Is there a certain way to power up the machine with say just the CPU connected (no score display or driver) to prevent the new card from failing?

My fear is something caused the power supply to fail and I don't want to fry the new one.

I really appreciate the help, maybe I should stick to EM machines.

 

[pinbuddha420]

I have a Hulk I am restoring right now. Have you also checked you cable connections? The molex get bent or broken very easy. The connect cable between the cpu & driver board could be causing you some of the coils locked on. Check over you connections, and you may need to do a few of the plastic connectors with new molex

 

[QMAN97]

Good idea about the connectors!

What's the easiest way to test these? Would pulling them off and checking them with the meter like the fuses work? Other than a visual check would this suffice?


Wouldn't you know Marco is out of the power supply board.......arrrrgh. I guess I'll go back to the Scuba game and I have a Satin Doll that needs fixin until they are back in stock.

 

[G-P-E]

Hey LyonsArcade,

Thanks for the reply!

Alright, I did what you said and this is what I found........

Fuses are good all tested out fine.

I tested the power supply and got some weird readings.
I get -12.4v at the -12v pin
I get anywhere from 0.0 to 0.84v on the +5v pin.

The NI-WUMPH board I have came with the game when I purchased it in 2009-10? I have no idea how old it actually is. I don't know if that matters or if they have updated there boards.

Thanks again for the reply!

John

If it is the System 1 power supply that I think it is then this would be the first failure of that board that I have ever seen.
One thing to note - the 5V supply does shut itself down if there is a short circuit on the output. It'll stay shut down as long as the short is present. Have you disconnected everything on his output (J2)? No shorts between the bottom of the power supply and the aluminum mounting plate such as a dropped contact or wire?

Incidentally, Marco will be having these for sale again real soon.

Ed

 

[QMAN97]

Hey Ed,

I'll check again for shorts and poor contacts, and the wire harness themselves for clean pin contact.

If everything is disconnected except for the "power in" on the bottom what else could be causing the missing 5v at the top of the board?


I have been looking at a pascal Janin PI-1 x4 "all in one board" and wondering if anyone has or knows if this is all it says it is? Looks like the way to go as far as ease of use and functions.


On a side note, anyone know how to check the displays to see if they are working?


I am off for the next 4 days and going to try to get this game going, plus I really want to give the re-done playfield a go!


John

 

[QMAN97]

Ok **update** on the Hulk project

I found the reason for the lack of 5v at the power supply. It was a wire off the transformer that looked connected until I touched it and noticed it was off (lesson learned---double check all wire connections)

So now the game boots up but I have bad displays in player 3-4 and the ball in play/credit counter. This is not new i had this before, problem is I can't run the diagnostics because I can't see player 3 display.

I can start a game, ball kicks out and score is counted correctly but I have:

NO play field lights
NO pop bumpers
NO flippers

When i turn on the power the T relay is locked on and the Q relay is off. If I toggle them opposite (Q on and T off) the lights are on and the flippers and pop bumpers work fine.

I am in the process of re-pinning all the connectors to rule this out as the problem but I'm stuck as to the Q and T relay.

Any suggestions? Am I headed in the right direction?