how to get the cleanest picture out of an atari 2600

[cwilkson]

I'll give you the pixel argument if that is what you meant. 160x192 resolution will be OBVIOUS, even on a smaller display, if the signal path is good enough. But if you're talking about the quality of the display, i.e. the sharpness, clarity, purity, etc....then you're wrong. Here's a couple of screenshots from a while back. These were taken using my Viewsonic P815 (21" CRT). Can you tell which one is emulation and which is a real 2600? I couldn't and I was sitting right in front of the monitor. Same monitor, same cable, same lousy handheld point-n-shoot-camera. The image looked identical on my Viewsonic 29GA (29" CRT) and on the 42" LCD at work and projected onto a 10x4 foot whiteboard from about 10 feet away using a cheap LCD projector (equivalent of 80" diagonal). When I took the photos I literally unplugged the VGA cable from my computer and plugged it into the Atari. I seriously couldn't tell the difference. However, those ARE some pretty big pixels...especially on a 80" display....

 

[keithsarcade]

Looks like your comparing a CRT to a CRT. The argument here isnt really resolution although that is part of it. Flat panels are a whole other species. Vintage games just look like crap on 'em no matter what you try. They just aren't designed to go together.

Another argument is that with the newer flat panels there's a video delay. Very slight (milliseconds), but enough for an expierienced player to notice, get frustrated with broken controls and launch their controller thru a flat panel, then grab a freebie CRT on CL.

 

[cwilkson]

Looks like your comparing a CRT to a CRT. The argument here isnt really resolution although that is part of it. Flat panels are a whole other species. Vintage games just look like crap on 'em no matter what you try. They just aren't designed to go together.

Another argument is that with the newer flat panels there's a video delay. Very slight (milliseconds), but enough for an expierienced player to notice, get frustrated with broken controls and launch their controller thru a flat panel, then grab a freebie CRT on CL.

Regarding the delay...YES!!! I agree. But you have that no matter what system you're running, so you can't really bang on the classic consoles for that.

You're right...that was a CRT. But if you read my post again you'll see that I mentioned using a 42" LCD and a projector. Same clarity as the CRT. A lot of it depends on how you hook it up (I was using the VGA output on my 2600) and whether you have a crappy TV that scales the resolution poorly....that's another conversion stage and you lose quality each time you convert. If you want to not worry about how good the tv is at upconverting, just make sure that its native resolution is an integer multiple of VGA (640x480). That helps immensely.

I have never had an LCD TV at home so I couldn't (and still can't) take screenshots of that. I do have a couple of beat up 17" LCD monitors lying around though. If I ever find my 2600 again, I'll try to get some screenshots of it running on one of those. If I remember.

 

[cwilkson]

I have never had an LCD TV at home so I couldn't (and still can't) take screenshots of that. I do have a couple of beat up 17" LCD monitors lying around though. If I ever find my 2600 again, I'll try to get some screenshots of it running on one of those. If I remember.

Ok...screenshots promised and delivered. These were taken on a Dell 1702FP 17" TFT LCD monitor using the VGA output on my 2600. The flash kills the shot, but I included one to show the color saturation is correct...it looks washed out in the photos, but not in reality. The next image is the "Clean VGA" mode, with no visible scanlines. And for the purists who really want a classic feel, with scanlines intact, a 3rd image with "Visible Scanlines VGA" mode enabled. Pretty bad moire effect, but you get the idea.

Now...to end the hijack and get back on topic...

cleverlyj - I highly recommend installing a video mod in your 2600. None of the CyberTech models are currently available (sad, I know!) so I don't think there are any plug-n-play solutions out there. And certainly none of comparable quality that I'm aware of. But it's still worth doing. If you don't like the idea of hacking your heavy sixer, then get a 4-switch woody and do it. You'll be glad you did.

 

[astrodan88]

Regarding the delay...YES!!! I agree. But you have that no matter what system you're running, so you can't really bang on the classic consoles for that.

Wow, this thread is getting really convoluted.
Just to reiterate what has been already said for the sake of anyone wrestling with these display issues themselves, the simplest way to get a decent picture out of a "classic console" is to use a CRT display. The closer you can get to a RGB signal, the better, but regardless the CRT will provide better results more simply.

"classic consoles" will always be more prone to input lag than new consoles on lcd/plasma tvs because of the resolution scaling. Some displays do better than others but, yes, this is a issue that has everything to do with consoles that natively display low resolution.

But lag issues aside, consoles that output low resolution will always look rather poor on a lcd/plasma display due to upscaling and line doubling. Any signal mods to the system will be subject to this. Unless you want to use something to de-interlace the signal, etc., but now we're really making things complicated.

So, say what you will, the simplest way (not the only way, just the simplest) to get a decent picture out of a "classic console" is..... use a CRT display, period.

 

[cleverlyj]

i may do the composite mod... the main reason i didn't want to is to drill holes in the heavy sixer case. however, i was thinking about it, and realistically, i can not drill holes, and just have the plugs inside the case or something like that.

i just don't have the need to have a second 2600 around. the point is for me to play it, not to look at it.

 

[tester007]

Please do go on and on, and then stick another system on a CRT beside your new LCD/Plasma set...no matter the output, these systems look like ASS on new displays, period.

You can't feed a VERY low resolution signal designed for line doubled sets, on a new display...and think that in any way it could look as good or even near, it just doesn't. It just looks wrong.

I think that it depends as been said on the scaler. Cheap (or actually most now since sources have improved so much) lcd tv's have lousy ones. Cheap dvd's when progressive came out had them. People wondered why you would spend a grand on a dvd (or now blu ray) when you could get one for 50$... part of the reason. On most tv's nowadays they are pretty bad, but oldr high-end external scalers have come down significantly if you just wanted to boost the resolution of a 2600. I have a Centerstage CS1 that i paid 2 grand for probably 7 or 8 years ago that you could get for probably 1-200 bucks on ebay right now. It was the only way then to boost 480p to anything higher as it was not internal on dvd's or tv's and 480p looked like ass in my theater. You can create any custom resolution you want to scale it properly. I am gonna be trying this out as i have decided to try and pick up a 2600 collection on ebay.

But i was curious what people think the best mod is? CS1 takes digital in, but also svga and composite(i think comp... need to pull it out of the closet). The one mentioned in the ebay link? Has there ever been (or is it possible) to have a fully digital signal out of the atari?

P.S. dvdo made scalers that are probably super cheap now as well. Centerstage and dvdo used the same chips usually for scaling... think it was Silicon Image. But i am not sure if dvdo had custom resolutions that you could create thru a pc hookup... if anyone else is interested in trying this route.