How much do you charge to shop out?

Toolguy-

I do see your points, all valid. But I guess my belief is - whether "professional" or "hobbyist" - folks should get paid an appropriate amount for their work. And just because it's pinball and we might think it's "fun" doesn't mean it's worth less per hour. You may find it fun to work on cars - but that shouldn't diminish your worth or value.

Just a fun conversation, nothing more. I agree that undercutting your competition on price is a valid business strategy, and ultimately we all decide what we value an hour of our own time at.

Elfyhead - you betcha I would. Laundromats charge by the pound - $10/hr would be a heck of a lot cheaper!

I agree totally! I guess you would call me a "professional". I run a repair shop, commercial store front, overhead, etc. I just recently raised my "shop out" rate. On single level playfields (a la Firepower, Eight Ball, Meteor, etc.) I raised from $100 to $150. On "modern" machines with multi-levels, ramps, toys, etc.....I raised from $200 to $300. At these prices, I still feel I'm not making enough money.....though, I'd also feel "wrong" charging someone more. I call them a labor of love. I strip the playfield bare (including the pain in the butt stuff like pop bumpers, dropping all targets and switches from the bottom, etc.). The playfield gets a good cleaning & waxing.....then everything else gets cleaned/waxed/polished/etc. Anything broken gets replaced, bulbs/rubbers replaced, and anything worn out (like a flipper plunger/link) gets replaced. The cabinet gets cleaned inside and out (head and body)....and all external metal gets polished (legs, rails, lockbar, etc.). I do not charge for parts unless it's expensive stuff (like new ramps, plastics, etc.). I'm very anal, to the point of insanity. I can easily blow 25 plus hours on a machine like Star Trek The Next Generation.....and $25 to $75 on nickel & dime parts. I feel, for the amount of work I do, and the final result.....at $300, the customer is getting a steal. I do understand $300 is a lot of money to some people.....and no two poeple are alike. Price and different options are gone over with the customer before any work is started. I can (and do) less expensive "shop outs" if the customer wants. Althought I hate doing "half-ass" jobs......if that's what the customer wants, that's what they get:).

Edward
 
I agree totally!
Edward

I agree with you!

Another example. There's brick and mortar near me, small shop. The guys do only alternator and starter repair rebuilds only (old school), I think some electrical repairs too which are a B!tch to find and diagnose. 2-3 guy shop, no lifts, just a building, small parking lot.

Anyway, I had a 1999 car with higher miles on it and knew the alternator was original, but did not want it to fail on me. Took it to the place and for $40 the guy rebuilt it! It took him minutes to do!

Obviously parts are not that expensive but the guy charges some kind of mark up on them and is still making money, even though it takes him literially minutes to do the repair. While you wait!

Just referred a friend there with an alternator issue on a 2 year old re-man. The regulator went bad. $24 cash and a few minutes was all he was charged and out the door! My friend gave the guy $30 in the end. And I'm sure if you had an issue, he would stand behind it, he does issue receipts too.

By the way people talk here, even though it takes minutes to do, the shop should be charging the industry standard hourly rate of $80-$100 to do the work plus parts and charge a full hour nothing less, for the few minute repair. This shop knows if they do that, that's the price of a new re-man alternator or starter in some vehicle cases. This shops been in business for years too!

In the end, if I don't think its worth my time to fix a game, fix or detail a car, then of course I don't do it.

And I'm not BS'ing here. Here's the shop, Google it and read all the comments on the place. He has no web site either...

Marv's Auto Electric
44725 Van Dyke Ave.
Utica
586-731-5151 – Open weekdays only.
 
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I agree with you!

In the end, if I don't think its worth my time to fix a game, fix or detail a car, then of course I don't do it.

And I'm not BS'ing here. Here's the shop, Google it and read all the comments on the place. He has no web site either...

Marv's Auto Electric
44725 Van Dyke Ave.
Utica
586-731-5151 – Open weekdays only.

awwww man....i could completely teach you a class on how to detail a car the RIGHT WAY.......haha just kidding......well....not really
 
What IS with all the talk of complete flipper rebuilds all the time anyway? I have yet to come across a game that needed these big kits...or ANY parts for that matter.

New bats, new coils, clean everything...never needed to replace anything else though.
There is always always talk and suggestions to people of rebuilding the whole thing with $50+ in parts per side, and I bet only 1/100 times it's actually needed.

On topic: I would want too much money to shop out someone elses pin, it's not worth my time + parts to charge someone $100-$200...I take EVERYTHING off. I'd want at least 4 bills.
 
I agree with you!

Another example. There's brick and mortar near me, small shop. The guys do only alternator and starer repair rebuilds only (old school), I think some electrical repairs too which are a B!tch to find and diagnose. 2-3 guy shop, no lifts, just a building, small parking lot.

Anyway, I had a 1999 car with higher miles on it and knew the alternator was original, but did not want it to fail on me. Took it to the place and for $40 the guy rebuilt it! It took him minutes to do!

Obviously parts are not that expensive but the guy charges some kind of mark up on them and is stil making money, even though it takes him literially minutes to do the repair. While you wait!

That's awesome! It's (almost) impossible to find anyone doing it old school anymore. It's probably way better than that "remanufactured" bullshit you get at the big box auto parts stores (and will probably outlast too).

Curious....are they all old timers?

Honestly, I've just been busting your balls (hopefully non-offensively taken). If you're doing (quality....and I'm sure you are) shop outs at $150, your customers are getting a smokin' deal!

Edward
 
What IS with all the talk of complete flipper rebuilds all the time anyway? I have yet to come across a game that needed these big kits...or ANY parts for that matter.

New bats, new coils, clean everything...never needed to replace anything else though.
There is always always talk and suggestions to people of rebuilding the whole thing with $50+ in parts per side, and I bet only 1/100 times it's actually needed.

I agree with this.....I've never seen an assembly need an entire kit. Burnt up or shot EOS switches....yes, shot coil stop.....sometimes, links broken or hole elongated.....all the time, plunger broke or excessively worn.....once in awhile, flipper bat/playfield bushing broke......once in a blue moon. All of this at the same time needed.....(probably) never. Anything else in the kit......hardly ever.

Flipper rebuild kit are kinda like Bob Roberts "deluxe" monitor cap kits, or his power supply rebuild kits. They are for people who don't fully understand what they're doing.......just replace everything, and hope that fixes it;).

Edward
 
That's awesome! It's (almost) impossible to find anyone doing it old school anymore. It's probably way better than that "remanufactured" bullshit you get at the big box auto parts stores (and will probably outlast too).

Curious....are they all old timers?

Honestly, I've just been busting your balls (hopefully non-offensively taken). If you're doing (quality....and I'm sure you are) shop outs at $150, your customers are getting a smokin' deal!

Edward

Yeah, that's exactly what happend to my friends re-maned off the shelf aftermarket crap alternator, part of it failed after 2 years and a car he does not drive everyday, his 1986 Fiero!

As for their age, not sure, when I was there the guy I delt with was in his 40's. They certainly have a customer for life and I will constantly refer them out.


And no, no offense taken at all! : )
 
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I can tell you from experience that $10 an hour isn't very satisfying after doing that for a couple games. Has to be at least $15 to $20 before it seems worthwhile. If you're doing it for $10 an hour you're a lot better off just buying broken games off craigslist and fixing them up, you'll make more than $10 an hour probably.
 
I agree with this.....I've never seen an assembly need an entire kit. Burnt up or shot EOS switches....yes, shot coil stop.....sometimes, links broken or hole elongated.....all the time, plunger broke or excessively worn.....once in awhile, flipper bat/playfield bushing broke......once in a blue moon. All of this at the same time needed.....(probably) never. Anything else in the kit......hardly ever.

Flipper rebuild kit are kinda like Bob Roberts "deluxe" monitor cap kits, or his power supply rebuild kits. They are for people who don't fully understand what they're doing.......just replace everything, and hope that fixes it;).

Edward

Ed, I don't completely agree with that, you are right that not all the parts are worn out and causing a problem, but I do not just change the one tire on my car that I can see the cords sticking threw..I replace all of them so I don't have to mess with it for a long time, if I have a flat of course just fix that air leak and don't replace anything. With pins if just one link is broke and you need to keep cost reasonable, Yes then just fix that. But with a shop job we are talking about doing preventive maintenance.

When I sell a Pin I want it to work for a long time with out call backs. Flippers are the most important part for fast / strong pinball play, and they are a high wear item, changing out the half worn sloppy links, mushroomed plungers, and fresh sleeves gives you a strong / accurate flipper that will last for may trouble free years in Home Use.

As far as saying that rebuild kits are a shot gun approach to repairs, a incorrectly installed flipper part will have a very short life, so new parts is not the answer..adjusting everything right is also needed.
 
wow... that's crazy.

Yea, He said that everybody with in shouting distance sent him bills.

Said the guy just walking by in the hall sent one.

They even called him in once on 10 min notice to help them test a new piece of equipment they had just set up, and they bill him for that, even though that was not part of his needed treatments, they just wanted to see if it could do what it was supposed to and compare it the other tests results.
 
Yea, He said that everybody with in shouting distance sent him bills.

Said the guy just walking by in the hall sent one.

They even called him in once on 10 min notice to help them test a new piece of equipment they had just set up, and they bill him for that, even though that was not part of his needed treatments, they just wanted to see if it could do what it was supposed to and compare it the other tests results.

That's really sad. I hope he gets through it!
 
Thanks for the quotes guys I will let you know more fiday.So far they bought it brand new when it first came out.It does not work Comes on but nothing on the play field works except the lights.My guess is a fuse or they left the original batterys in the board and its a heavy case of battery acid.

Now you are talking about a repair versus a shop job. Unless you are sure you know how to fix the issue I would stay away from doing major repairs unless you have a great understanding with the person you are doing the work for.

To me a shop job means everything on top of the playfield gets removed and cleaned individually. Subway ramps underneath the playfield get removed and cleaned, inserts are cleaned from underneath. Bulbs are replaced where needed and rubber is replaced.

I typically tumble all small metal parts like screws in a vibratory tumbler and I clean metal ramps by hand. Flippers are rebuilt, targets are rebuilt/replaced as needed and all coil sleeves are replaced.

If you do it right the first time the machine will stay clean overall for a long time to come. If you take shortcuts and do not remove most parts you can bet you will be stripping it down again soon.
 
They are for people who don't fully understand what they're doing.......just replace everything, and hope that fixes it;).

Edward

I completely disagree with this statement. As old as these games are metal parts get weak over time and eventually do break. It costs more to replace the flipper pawl, coil stop, spring, etc but once done you never have to worry about it again.

How many of you have worked on lots of pins before? Have you ever decided not to install a full flipper kit and then find something break a week or days later? It happens :)

I am upfront with my shop out costs. I charge $350 base, no parts included. Personally I think someone that is shopping out a newer DMD pinball in less than 8 hours is working too fast and that's how mistakes and poor rebuilds happen. If you take the time to clean each individual part it really makes a difference. Here is an example of a recent shop job I did for another person on KLOV:

http://gallery.metahugh.com/main.php?g2_itemId=22530

This one was the playfield only. I should have probably counted the hours but I can guarantee you it was more than 10 :)
 
Ed, I don't completely agree with that, you are right that not all the parts are worn out and causing a problem, but I do not just change the one tire on my car that I can see the cords sticking threw..I replace all of them so I don't have to mess with it for a long time, if I have a flat of course just fix that air leak and don't replace anything. With pins if just one link is broke and you need to keep cost reasonable, Yes then just fix that. But with a shop job we are talking about doing preventive maintenance.

When I sell a Pin I want it to work for a long time with out call backs. Flippers are the most important part for fast / strong pinball play, and they are a high wear item, changing out the half worn sloppy links, mushroomed plungers, and fresh sleeves gives you a strong / accurate flipper that will last for may trouble free years in Home Use.

As far as saying that rebuild kits are a shot gun approach to repairs, a incorrectly installed flipper part will have a very short life, so new parts is not the answer..adjusting everything right is also needed.


Very well put!! You can tell I am responding to posts as I work my way down this thread :)
 
I completely disagree with this statement. As old as these games are metal parts get weak over time and eventually do break. It costs more to replace the flipper pawl, coil stop, spring, etc but once done you never have to worry about it again.

Come on guys......I put a "smiley" on that statement. It was partial sarcasm;). How many times have you seen on these boards (or in my case get the tech call in the shop).....someone just finished a flipper rebuild, and now the game is blowing a fuse?

I do see yours (and pinballDans) side. It really was meant jokingly......but I still stand by that statement in regards to the deluxe monitor rebuild kits:D.

Edward
 
Come on guys......I put a "smiley" on that statement. It was partial sarcasm;). How many times have you seen on these boards (or in my case get the tech call in the shop).....someone just finished a flipper rebuild, and now the game is blowing a fuse?

I do see yours (and pinballDans) side. It really was meant jokingly......but I still stand by that statement in regards to the deluxe monitor rebuild kits:D.

Edward


How did I miss the winky? LOL

I agree on the monitor part... sort of ;)
 
I completely disagree with this statement. As old as these games are metal parts get weak over time and eventually do break. It costs more to replace the flipper pawl, coil stop, spring, etc but once done you never have to worry about it again.

How many of you have worked on lots of pins before? Have you ever decided not to install a full flipper kit and then find something break a week or days later? It happens :)

I am upfront with my shop out costs. I charge $350 base, no parts included. Personally I think someone that is shopping out a newer DMD pinball in less than 8 hours is working too fast and that's how mistakes and poor rebuilds happen. If you take the time to clean each individual part it really makes a difference. Here is an example of a recent shop job I did for another person on KLOV:

http://gallery.metahugh.com/main.php?g2_itemId=22530

This one was the playfield only. I should have probably counted the hours but I can guarantee you it was more than 10 :)

Nice work on the Indy!

I would not call that a shop out though, that was basically a resto to me. :)
 
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