HudsonArcade
Well-known member
Anything AndyB doesn't profit from is bad for the hobby.
High Score Save Kits: Go or No-Go
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Anything AndyB doesn't profit from is bad for the hobby.
We actually just discussed this exact topic in the latest episode of The Coin Jam Podcast! My personal take was, although I don't look down on anyone who uses them, I do feel a bit conflicted about installing them in my games. I've purchased a few, but have only actually installed one -- and that was because I wanted the Hot Butter Popcorn music in my Pengo! 
MrGorf
Well-known member
ALL of the games in my basement can save the high scores. If it wasn't built that way from the factory, I've added a HSS kit. It's a lot more fun when people come over if they can post their initials in a game.
However, I keep all of the original parts removed when installing these various kits. If I was ever good enough to attempt a run at a WR, I would restore the game back to its factory original state.
However, I keep all of the original parts removed when installing these various kits. If I was ever good enough to attempt a run at a WR, I would restore the game back to its factory original state.
I learned early on in my arcade collecting venture to not buy any game that can be "beaten" I found that once i had the game id play to the end by just continuing and then id never play it again. So i decided to stick with games that i can play for high score. I love the HSS kits and have them in almost all of my games that dont save high score. Im not after a world record and any code changes from the original code are not known or remembered by me so it doesnt really affect gameplay
jrok
Well-known member
We actually just discussed this exact topic in the latest episode of The Coin Jam Podcast! My personal take was, although I don't look down on anyone who uses them, I do feel a bit conflicted about installing them in my games. I've purchased a few, but have only actually installed one -- and that was because I wanted the Hot Butter Popcorn music in my Pengo!
That was pretty interesting to listen to.
ChanceKJ
Well-known member
To be clear, before banning me from buying any more of your boards, although you may not be able to tell with my extremely strong Canadian accent, I did speak very highly of your work. …sir.
jrok
Well-known member
To be clear, before banning me from buying any more of your boards, although you may not be able to tell with my extremely strong Canadian accent, I did speak very highly of your work. …sir.
I will add.... if anyone finds the onboard sound isn't to their liking ( it doesn't go as loud at the original board and isn't as noisy ), there is pinheader on the wSYSFPGA board to connect up to an original WMS soundboard.
Yes, I've seen @DLP do exactly this!
An awesome and forward thinking feature! Especially for the stereo on Sinistar and Blaster. I didn't have one of those to spare either
Plus dedicated support for the 49 way optical.
Your boards *are* a master class in FPGA equivalents. And I'm glad I had one in my Robotron to get it going. It would have been very sad to wait as long as I did to get the original boards and have it sit there... Taunting me.
ᵖˡᵉᵃˢᵉ ᵈᵒⁿ'ᵗ ᵇᵃⁿ ᵒʰ ᴸᵒʳᵈ ᵒᶠ ᶠᵖᵍᵃ
ChanceKJ
Well-known member
I can see Liam shaking with fear through the text on my screen. LOL.
Yes! I have the the JROK Multi Williams in my scratch build Blaster cabinet that I built about 5 years ago. I wanted to take advantage of the "stereo" sound that Blaster has,... so with some assistance from @braedel, I was able to utilize the pinheader that JROK mentioned in the thread above and hook two original Williams sound boards to the JROK board. I removed the single speaker that I had in this cabinet and installed two speakers like dedicated Blaster machines had. One sound board to one speaker and the other sound board to the other speaker. Not only is it super loud now, but you really can hear the amazing stereo sound coming thru, including parts of the game where you can actually hear it playing different sounds out of each speaker at the same time. Extremely cool effect!
This is not my neatest custom wiring job, but you get the point.
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OP
OP
The FPGA PCB's developed and produced by jrok are in a class by themselves and I'm grateful to have these. Otherwise I would never get to play some of the more obscure Gottlieb games.......
I started this thread as I just finished bringing a Warlords UR back from the dead and really enjoy the 3D effects and game action. It can get really tough on the upper levels. I contemplated installing a HSS kit but do not want to alter the original game-play.
I'm just going to put up a post-it note on the game as I increase the HS, thanks guys........
I started this thread as I just finished bringing a Warlords UR back from the dead and really enjoy the 3D effects and game action. It can get really tough on the upper levels. I contemplated installing a HSS kit but do not want to alter the original game-play.
I'm just going to put up a post-it note on the game as I increase the HS, thanks guys........
ChanceKJ
Well-known member
…Fixed it for you.
andrewb
Well-known member
There are ways to make money that help other people and the hobby as a whole. Ways that deepen people's understanding and appreciation of their games and the technology, while also preserving as much original hardware as possible. If those are not core values of a 'Preservation Society', I don't know what are.
There are also ways to make money making things for which there is a legitimate need, because there is no substitute or alternative, the original cannot be repaired, and/or insufficient original examples exist, so demand exceeds supply. Repro AVG's, Pokeys, and other customs are examples, as are repro MH, Quantum, or Cosmic Chasm PCB's, or FPGA implementations of game boards that are scarce or nonexistent. These things do not displace anything original.
There are also ways to make money by making 'things' that people don't need, simply because you know you can manufacture them cheaply, and get noobs to buy them. These things incentivize people to NOT research or deepen their understanding in any way, and just buy a new thing to replace the old thing, instead of learning about and preserving the old thing. These things displace original hardware.
These things also cheapen the hobby (literally in the economic sense), by reducing the interest and demand for (and hence the value of) original hardware that is not scarce, but is simply in need of preservation or repair. That is how we end up with people who cut whole Pac cabinets in half with chainsaws. They don't perceive the value of those cabinets, because they see them as inferior to modern replacements.
There are also ways to make money selling things that give the APPEARANCE of being a solution to a problem. You can sell lots of them with full knowledge that they will be purchased by people who lack the ability to troubleshoot or fix something properly, and will buy a thing simply out of hope. This includes game board and AR cap kits, HSS kits for boards that already save scores, repro 6100 transistor blocks, switcher kits, etc. The majority of people who buy these things end up with the same broken game they started with, no new knowledge, and just waste money lining someone else's pockets, before they eventually ask someone else for help.
Understand the difference, kiddo?
Some products help foster a community of knowledgeable, self-sufficient individuals who are competent custodians of these games (and the knowledge surrounding them) for future generations. That to me is a Preservation Society.
Other products help cultivate a flock of dependent consumers, who mindlessly line up to buy the latest and greatest gimmick from their favorite 'influencer', because everyone else is doing the same. Always consuming, never contributing, and never getting out of noobville.
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Here's my take.
You own the game, you do what you want to do. It's my opinion that if the "kit" adds more fun to the game and it makes you happy go for it.
I support 5 freeplay arcades (about 2500 games) and buy these kits when a game has a static freeplay (PacMan for instance). I don't really care about the High score save aspect though. lol
And in some cases, a troublesome game like Battlezone with its crappy sockets, can be repaired by replacing ONE socket and installing a HSS kit. You too Tempest.
You own the game, you do what you want to do. It's my opinion that if the "kit" adds more fun to the game and it makes you happy go for it.
I support 5 freeplay arcades (about 2500 games) and buy these kits when a game has a static freeplay (PacMan for instance). I don't really care about the High score save aspect though. lol
And in some cases, a troublesome game like Battlezone with its crappy sockets, can be repaired by replacing ONE socket and installing a HSS kit. You too Tempest.
and one other thing since it was mentioned.
Jan 31st, 2021. Thats the date I bought my first transistor kit for a 6100 in a Tempest. Before buying this kit, this very same monitor would nuke itself like clockwork. Every 3 months it would blow the two frame transistors at a minimum in the 700 circuit. New sockets, higher current drive transistors, new wire, new male pins on the board, new female connectors with trifurcons, MJE whatever transistors, fans, heatsinks, NOTHING EXTENDED THE LIFE OF THIS MONITOR. NOTHING.
Until I bought that Transistor kit.
Its been out in the wild and operating in one of our arcades daily 365 days a year 14-16 hours a day since the installation.
So yeah... That's my take on the transistor kits.
Jan 31st, 2021. Thats the date I bought my first transistor kit for a 6100 in a Tempest. Before buying this kit, this very same monitor would nuke itself like clockwork. Every 3 months it would blow the two frame transistors at a minimum in the 700 circuit. New sockets, higher current drive transistors, new wire, new male pins on the board, new female connectors with trifurcons, MJE whatever transistors, fans, heatsinks, NOTHING EXTENDED THE LIFE OF THIS MONITOR. NOTHING.
Until I bought that Transistor kit.
Its been out in the wild and operating in one of our arcades daily 365 days a year 14-16 hours a day since the installation.
So yeah... That's my take on the transistor kits.
I learned not to give a single damn about what other people think about my games or what I run in them or what I do with them...
...a long time ago.
I run high score kits. I have multigames. OH CRAP I run a few Pi's too. EVIL/BAD Friz. Pfft...
...a long time ago.
I run high score kits. I have multigames. OH CRAP I run a few Pi's too. EVIL/BAD Friz. Pfft...
wugly
Well-known member
My belief is that the braze space invaders board has actually preserved many a butchering job by someone who is to inexperienced to be changing defective rom sockets on an 8080 board or restrapping the board for 2716 roms. now if you want to go the other way and have a board that annoys the everlasting **** out of me consider a 60 in 1 that plays donkey kong
