Help with strange Bubbles reset problem...

Vectorman

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Guys,

I've got a Bubbles (in duramold!) that's been sitting for 15 years in my warehouse and today I pulled it out to get it going. I thought it would be a 5 minute repair, but now I'm stumped.

On powerup, it goes through RAM test rug, says "ALL SYSTEMS GO," then flashes the "high score reset" line and immediately resets.

I've tried:
1) New power supply
2) different working CPU board
3) different working ROM board (from Joust)

I took a Joust ROM board and hooked it up to the cab, and Joust boots completely and fine. Then I swapped all of the ROMs between the joust ROM board and the Bubbles ROM board. The problem followed the ROMs! Now the former Bubbles ROM board boots Joust fine, and the former Joust ROM board resets just like before.

So I figured, maybe it's the ROMs. So I swapped all of the ROMs with a "known good" set of Bubbles ROMs....same problem. In fact after building another boardset, I now have two Bubbles boardsets with this same problem.

I guess in typing this it seems that the problem must be in the ROM images...but it just seems unlikely to me that both would have the same problem (especially since both were tested good 10+ years ago). And I thought it tested the ROMs anyway before the RAMs...?

I don't have any more Bubbles ROMs to play with...should I just find somewhere to download them and compare? Have any of you seen this problem?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

John
 
Are you using Bubbles CPU boards? Bubbles doubled the size of the CMOS RAM so a Bubbles CPU board will run Joust, Robotron, etc. but a CPU board from one of the earlier games will not work for Bubbles.

And now that I think about it, that should not be the problem because you would get a CMOS RAM error during POST.

Hmmmm....
 
Hmmm...this could be the problem. The first picture is the boardset in the game - no second 5514. The second picture is another board I found with the second 5514.

Both of the Bubbles boardsets that have this reset problem have only the single 5514. Out of all my WMS boards, I was only able to find two CPU boards with the dual 5514s. One is locked up, and the other I haven't tested yet...here goes....

Thanks for the help...will let you know. If anyone has other ideas, don't hold back...
John
 

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Hmmm...this could be the problem. The first picture is the boardset in the game - no second 5514. The second picture is another board I found with the second 5514.

Both of the Bubbles boardsets that have this reset problem have only the single 5514. Out of all my WMS boards, I was only able to find two CPU boards with the dual 5514s. One is locked up, and the other I haven't tested yet...here goes....

Thanks for the help...will let you know. If anyone has other ideas, don't hold back...
John


Here's an idea: I sell you a tested working Bubbles MPU $100 shipped lower 48

Saltbreez
 
pic #2 is NOT a Bubbles board, and probably why it will not boot up.

Eh? Pic 2 is a Bubbles MPU, not enough resolution to say if it is a Bubbles ROM board [but with a 11 ROM set, it cannot be a proper Bubbles ROM set in a Bubbles ROM board anyhow, so... NO BOOT].

Pic 1 is NOT a Bubbles MPU and once again, not enough resolution to say it is a Bubbles ROM board.

Saltbreez
 
Eh? Pic 2 is a Bubbles MPU, not enough resolution to say if it is a Bubbles ROM board [but with a 11 ROM set, it cannot be a proper Bubbles ROM set in a Bubbles ROM board anyhow, so... NO BOOT].

Pic 1 is NOT a Bubbles MPU and once again, not enough resolution to say it is a Bubbles ROM board.

Saltbreez

Doh!, got the numbers backwards. Pic 1 is NOT a Bubbles MPU.
 
Ok, I'll try the MPU in pic 2. Fingers crossed...

BTW, it's on a 2084 set for some reason. I haven't touched these boards in a decade, but I used to mess with them all the time swapping boards around and I probably got them all mixed up naively.

Thanks,
John
 
I have a Bubbles ROM set that is doing this. The problem I have narrowed is on the ROM board there is a slight leak to ground on one of the address lines on the DMA chips. I have replaced everything in the DMA section and it is still there. It doesn't bother the ROMS at all, just the DMA. So it boots, waits and then the watchdog kills it and it boots again.

Just for grins I put a Stargate ROM set in (yes, I had to burn a set in 2732's to do it). Since Stargate doesn't use the DMA chips, it ran fine. Put Bubbles back in, boot, hang, repeat forever.

I'm about to remove the DMA chip sockets to see if I can get rid of the ground leak that way. At the moment I've shelved it just to get some other stuff outof the way.

ken
 
Ok, I'll try the MPU in pic 2. Fingers crossed...

BTW, it's on a 2084 set for some reason. I haven't touched these boards in a decade, but I used to mess with them all the time swapping boards around and I probably got them all mixed up naively.

Thanks,
John


John,

Read us the PCB ID etched into the PCB : 5771-10177-00 or 5771-09840-00

Saltbreez
 
I have two 5770-10179-00 (with the two CMOS chips)...both dead - white screen (so far). Maybe even these aren't the right boards?

Then I have a bunch of other working boards with numbers like 5770-09656-00.

I'll start in on the dead ones tomorrow morning. I just need one working board. I appreciate your offer to sell me one. If all else fails, I'll need to buy or trade for one.

If my repair attempts fail, do you have any interest in trading for one of the other types? Would you trade a complete working Bubbles set for a complete working Joust, Robotron, or Sinistar set? Or any other game boards you're looking for that you'd trade for? I've got a lot of boards.

Thanks,
John
 
I have two 5770-10179-00 (with the two CMOS chips)...both dead - white screen (so far). Maybe even these aren't the right boards?

Then I have a bunch of other working boards with numbers like 5770-09656-00.

I'll start in on the dead ones tomorrow morning. I just need one working board. I appreciate your offer to sell me one. If all else fails, I'll need to buy or trade for one.

If my repair attempts fail, do you have any interest in trading for one of the other types? Would you trade a complete working Bubbles set for a complete working Joust, Robotron, or Sinistar set? Or any other game boards you're looking for that you'd trade for? I've got a lot of boards.

Thanks,
John

NO!, I am asking for the number etched into the ROM boards. We can tell from the pictures which MPU's are Bubbles and which are not, we need the number off the ROM boards to tell you which ones will pair with your Bubbles MPU.

Saltbreez
 
Oops...sorry!

The ROM boards I'm trying are all 5771-09840-00.

Now all I get with both of the Bubbles MPU boards is a blank white screen. The reset button works (screen goes blank, then after two seconds - white again).

If I try other ROM boards with other game roms, same thing or black and white vertical stripes.

The only thing I tried was replacing the two 5514 RAMs - no help.

Please HELP!?!?! What should I check or do?

Thanks,
John
 
Oops...sorry!

The ROM boards I'm trying are all 5771-09840-00.

Now all I get with both of the Bubbles MPU boards is a blank white screen. The reset button works (screen goes blank, then after two seconds - white again).

If I try other ROM boards with other game roms, same thing or black and white vertical stripes.

The only thing I tried was replacing the two 5514 RAMs - no help.

Please HELP!?!?! What should I check or do?

Thanks,
John

Wel, First and formost, I would try using a Bubbles ROM board with those Bubbles MPU. You are trying to get a Joust or Robotron ROM board to work with that Bubbles MPU and this is not going to happen without an adaptor [don't ask]. Your ROM board needs to have 5771-10177-00 etched into the PCB.

Hope this helps,
Saltbreez
 
Hooray!!! When I put the right ROMs in the right ROM board and hooked it up to the right MPU board - it booted! (at least after replacing half a dozen 4116s).

Sound and controls still dead, but hopefully I can figure those out. Is there a special controls interface board for Bubbles too?

Thanks for all the help guys. I never would have figured this out without you.

A related question...is switching to 4164s a no-brainer? If I do, what do I send to the board in place of the -5 and +12?

This game is going into a museum (along with equally flaky Joust, Robotron, Sinistar, and Stargate) where it needs to be reliable (if that is even possible).

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John
 
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