HELP! Whats The Deal With Stun Runner Soundboard Repairs??

PhoenixStar

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HELP! Whats The Deal With Stun Runner Soundboard Repairs??

HELP! Whats The Deal With Stun Runner Soundboard Repairs?? Is there anyone out there who can repair a Stun Runner sound board?? I really need help or a good lead please!! For years inside and outside of KLOV, i've been trying to find someone who will repair my partially failed Stun Runner soundboard (only 22 out of 108 sounds working), and I don't have the knowledge to repair it myself. I must have posted dozens of threads about it here since i've been a member. What's so difficult about this board that not 1 person in the entire world can fix?? This board has such a high failure rate that it gives Pole Position a run for it's money as far as $hitty boards go. I'm surprised nobody has ever attempted to fix this or sent it somewhere to be fixed to the point where no one can help. Do people just willingly let this soundboard die and don't care? C'mon! This game was a great money maker back in the day and it had sound issues then too, how did the operators get the boards repaired? There's got to be SOMEONE out there, ANYBODY???!! Can you tell i'm desperate? Frustrating! :mad:
 
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I'd guess it has more to do with the fact that there's not many out there in collectors' hands. The game is pretty fun, but that massive cabinet just isn't worth it to most. And because of that, there's not many with experience repairing the sound boards.

Is there a common problem with these sound boards, or have you just not had any luck fixing yours? I see there are schematics available, and it doesn't look like a very complicated sound board... is there any pattern of types of sounds that work? Is it all music, sound effects, speech, etc. missing? Basically, it looks like you've got audio mixed from the MSM6295S and YM2151/YM3012 (with lots of op amps and stuff in the paths). If you're missing all of one type, then trace back that path... which can easily be done with an oscilloscope, or even just an amplified speaker.

DogP
 
Is there a common problem with these sound boards, or have you just not had any luck fixing yours?
I see there are schematics available, and it doesn't look like a very complicated sound board... is there any pattern of types of sounds that work? Is it all music, sound effects, speech, etc. missing? Basically, it looks like you've got audio mixed from the MSM6295S and YM2151/YM3012 (with lots of op amps and stuff in the paths).
If you're missing all of one type, then trace back that path... which can easily be done with an oscilloscope, or even just an amplified speaker.
DogP

Yes there is a common problem with these boards. If I had to make an educated guess based upon all the research and user complaints on the web, it's probably safe to say 75% or more of the boards that are out there have failed, or are experiencing some sort of partial failure to some degree.

I havent looked in a while, but I believe there is a schematic or some sort of diagram available in the original manual. The problem is that the diagram printed in the manual is not the soundboard used in the actual game (if I remember correctly). Apparently Atari produced the manuals and had such trouble with the sound boards that they yanked the original sound board (after the manual & diagrams were printed) in the final stages of production and tried to come up with another sound board (currently used) in a hurry to meet production deadlines. I found all that info from an ATARI archive site that shows hundreds if not thousands of company emails/diary notes from start to finish on the production of STUN Runner.
As far as what sounds are working on mine, I can do a basic do-re-me test which works fine, and I can test each file individually (about 108 of them). Only 22 of mine work, but have no specific "class" of sounds that are out.
Regarding the O-Scope idea, I have no way to test it on my own. I have contacted most of the repair members here on KLOV, and they said they couldn't fix it or didn't even suggest they'd do an O-scope diagnosis, so from that I have to assume it's more complicated than the o-scope can handle.

Have you tried one of the "commercial" repair people like El Dorado?
Yes. I must have contacted dozens of other commercial people too. I did find one woman in VT who is an electrical engineer and runs a large arcade repair business. After emailing my description of my problem, she said she could fix it, and gave me prices of the different services and parts she would use. When I finally got the funds together a few months later, I emailed her to give the green light, and asked her if she could reuse my packaging & box so that I wouldn't have to be charged the full $25 for shipping, maybe a bit less so I could put the remainder of the cash towards an eeprom or something. She didn't reply, and after 2 or 3 other emails she never responded to me.
 
I havent looked in a while, but I believe there is a schematic or some sort of diagram available in the original manual. The problem is that the diagram printed in the manual is not the soundboard used in the actual game (if I remember correctly).
Ah... well that's pretty dumb of them. :p Do you have a pic of the sound board? Close ups would be good. I would imagine it's pretty close to the original design, or they would have had a LOT of work to do to make it work (LOTS of code changing). From a look at the System 16 page and the MAME source, it looks like it still uses the YM2151 and OKI6295 (which I assume is compatible w/ the MSM6295 from the schems), as well as a 6502 (also in the schems). Everything refers to it as the JSA II board... the Stun Runner schematics say SA Audio II (could be the same, could be different). Cyperball 2072 claims to use the JSA II Audio PCB, and there's schematics in that manual as well.

As far as what sounds are working on mine, I can do a basic do-re-me test which works fine, and I can test each file individually (about 108 of them). Only 22 of mine work, but have no specific "class" of sounds that are out.
Can you post an excerpt of the ones that do and don't work? I could try it in MAME and see if it makes sense why certain ones would work and others wouldn't.

Regarding the O-Scope idea, I have no way to test it on my own. I have contacted most of the repair members here on KLOV, and they said they couldn't fix it or didn't even suggest they'd do an O-scope diagnosis, so from that I have to assume it's more complicated than the o-scope can handle.
I'm sure it's not more complicated than an oscope could handle, but I'd bet it goes back to what I was saying earlier... not many people have Stun Runner cabs. For the oscope to be useful (and really, for any good troubleshooting), you'd need the game running.

BTW, is it known that it's the audio board that's bad, and not something on one of the main boards causing it? i.e. does swapping a good audio board fix the problem?

DogP
 
Ah... well that's pretty dumb of them. :p Do you have a pic of the sound board? Close ups would be good. I would imagine it's pretty close to the original design, or they would have had a LOT of work to do to make it work (LOTS of code changing). From a look at the System 16 page and the MAME source, it looks like it still uses the YM2151 and OKI6295 (which I assume is compatible w/ the MSM6295 from the schems), as well as a 6502 (also in the schems). Everything refers to it as the JSA II board... the Stun Runner schematics say SA Audio II (could be the same, could be different). Cyperball 2072 claims to use the JSA II Audio PCB, and there's schematics in that manual as well.
I don't have the game in front of me, it's at another location at the moment, but from what I remember the board looked nothing like the one in the book. However, I do remember it having those 2 YM & OKI chips. If I can remember correctly also it does say SA AUDIO II, it just looks way different.


Can you post an excerpt of the ones that do and don't work? I could try it in MAME and see if it makes sense why certain ones would work and others wouldn't.
Sure. Here it is exactly how you would see the layout it in service mode (except the colors are coded for me). I tested and labeled all the colors in green that work, and all the colors in red do not work. The ones labeled black just turn the sounds on & off, and the other one YTST is the do-re-me test (midi I think).

screenshot20120205at414.png



I'm sure it's not more complicated than an oscope could handle, but I'd bet it goes back to what I was saying earlier... not many people have Stun Runner cabs. For the oscope to be useful (and really, for any good troubleshooting), you'd need the game running.
BTW, is it known that it's the audio board that's bad, and not something on one of the main boards causing it? i.e. does swapping a good audio board fix the problem?
I would hope the good sound board swap works, that's my last shot at having this work. From all the research and complaint i've gone through throughout the years it's known for the sound board. However, I guess one can argue that if the boards were never repaired before, how does one know the problem doesn't stem from the main board? The only way I can answer that question with some speculation is that Atari has serious sound issues in production as I mentioned before, I from what I gather they sent the newer board out with no longevity testing, knowing full well it was better than what they had, but knew it would crap out too soon. There's theories that eeproms erase/corrupt and that the sound files need to be reloaded on new eeproms via MAME, but I really don't know because nobody ever posted that it worked.
With the o-scope, I just don't have access to one, and if I did I wouldn't know how to use it either. My hands are tied.
 
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curious if there were ever any updates to this

I wish, that would be a dream come true. I guess when you eventually lose all your sounds on STUN Runner you're supposed to throw the whole cabinet off the roof since it's un-repairable for all eternity.
This stupid issue with this one game is the only thing that makes me furious about this hobby, and I mean furious to the point of going postal (not literally).
 
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