Hantarex Polo 25" Horz Wavy Distortion?

[DesertDweller88]

I recently repaired a hantarex polo 25" that came in a KI2 cabinet. Initially it wouldn't come on as the flyback was arching. Below are my repair notes. After the repair I'm seeing these horizontal line distortions all over the screen (more noticable though texts shown in video) in the game and overall slight jitter to the image on the screen. For the overall jitter I saw some posts suggesting to replace IC103 but haven't seen any previous posts with this issue of the horizontal distortion and was wondering if anyone had suggestions of where to start looking?

I appreciate any help or suggestions.

Repairs:

1. Replaced flyback
2. Full Cap Kit
3. Full reflow

Video:
Link

Photos (though may be harder to spot):
You can notice the indent in the "I" and goes through all the letters

Then it travels up. To the naked eye and in the video, the line is more apparent than in the photos.

 

[Richard48]

Do you get the same symptom with another signal source (another game or a TPG)?

 

[DesertDweller88]

Do you get the same symptom with another signal source (another game or a TPG)?

The gameboard I'm using is MK4, and I was using a K7400 previously and didn't see this issue with the MK4 game board. I opted to put the Hantarex Polo in due to its overall increased brightness and better color intensity.

 

[mecha]

The gameboard I'm using is MK4, and I was using a K7400 previously and didn't see this issue with the MK4 game board. I opted to put the Hantarex Polo in due to its overall increased brightness and better color intensity.

just FYI, brightness and electron gun emissions are two entirely different components. you can make any tube white with the Screen adjustment on the flyback, so let's get that "increased brightness" thing settled, it's not something special with your Polo tube.

your brightness (at the remote board) is probably just set too high and you need to white balance cause your white looks very red.

this picture is from MAME, but it's roughly what your color bar test (test mode -> Diagnostics -> Monitor Patterns -> Color Bars) should look like. Polos use those little plastic pegs for their adjustment pots, if yours are missing on the neckboard you can borrow one from the remote board. you want to adjust the Red/Green/Blue Cut Offs to where they're all even much like the attached picture. a crude and simpler way to do it is to adjust each color until a black background tints to that color and then back the adjustment off until it's black again. Brightness/Screen need to be set similarly to where you turn it up high enough that you see grey dots in a black background and back off until it's absolute black.

you probably could have tried this on your U2000 or K7400 (whichever it had) but the tubes Wells-Gardner used for those were very hit or miss during that era. even rejuvenation isn't a guarantee. the RCA tubes Hantarex used are much higher quality.

 

[mr.fixit]

It's one of the poly caps in the corner of the board. Replace all those.

 

[mr.fixit]

I had a mace the dark age do the same rhing

 

[JukeboxJon]

just FYI, brightness and electron gun emissions are two entirely different components. you can make any tube white with the Screen adjustment on the flyback, so let's get that "increased brightness" thing settled, it's not something special with your Polo tube.

your brightness (at the remote board) is probably just set too high and you need to white balance cause your white looks very red.

this picture is from MAME, but it's roughly what your color bar test (test mode -> Diagnostics -> Monitor Patterns -> Color Bars) should look like. Polos use those little plastic pegs for their adjustment pots, if yours are missing on the neckboard you can borrow one from the remote board. you want to adjust the Red/Green/Blue Cut Offs to where they're all even much like the attached picture. a crude and simpler way to do it is to adjust each color until a black background tints to that color and then back the adjustment off until it's black again. Brightness/Screen need to be set similarly to where you turn it up high enough that you see grey dots in a black background and back off until it's absolute black.

you probably could have tried this on your U2000 or K7400 (whichever it had) but the tubes Wells-Gardner used for those were very hit or miss during that era. even rejuvenation isn't a guarantee. the RCA tubes Hantarex used are much higher quality.

I think hes probably just saying for whatever reason a lot of us like Zenomorph have agreed that good working hantarex polos seem to produce the best picture that even top a good working k7000.

 

[DesertDweller88]

just FYI, brightness and electron gun emissions are two entirely different components. you can make any tube white with the Screen adjustment on the flyback, so let's get that "increased brightness" thing settled, it's not something special with your Polo tube.

your brightness (at the remote board) is probably just set too high and you need to white balance cause your white looks very red.

this picture is from MAME, but it's roughly what your color bar test (test mode -> Diagnostics -> Monitor Patterns -> Color Bars) should look like. Polos use those little plastic pegs for their adjustment pots, if yours are missing on the neckboard you can borrow one from the remote board. you want to adjust the Red/Green/Blue Cut Offs to where they're all even much like the attached picture. a crude and simpler way to do it is to adjust each color until a black background tints to that color and then back the adjustment off until it's black again. Brightness/Screen need to be set similarly to where you turn it up high enough that you see grey dots in a black background and back off until it's absolute black.

you probably could have tried this on your U2000 or K7400 (whichever it had) but the tubes Wells-Gardner used for those were very hit or miss during that era. even rejuvenation isn't a guarantee. the RCA tubes Hantarex used are much higher quality.

Thanks for the insight mecha and you're absolutely right. Your challenge had me re-adjust my k7400 monitor and it is brighter now. But swapping it in and out of my MK4 project cabinet.....for some reason the colors look better on the Hantarex . Blame my crappy monitor adjustment skills, but I did the exact same thing to the polo. Could be the tube.

K7400 on left in MK3 project cabinet, Hantarex in right MK4 project cabinet.

Also not sure if this is also any clue to what's wrong with the polo, but it's causing distortion on the k7400. It's causing a ripple to travel up the k7400 screen when on. I disconnected the speakers and light in the MK4 cabinet just to make sure, but as soon as I unplug the polo the ripple stops on the K7400. It's not a grounding issue either, as soon as I move the MK3 cabinet farther away the ripple stops . Unplugged the degauss on the polo, no change. Didn't think cabinets together could do that.

 

[DesertDweller88]

It's one of the poly caps in the corner of the board. Replace all those.

Thank you! I'll give it a shot, I'll have to stop by my components store tomorrow to find the right voltage rating poly caps, saw that two of them are rated for 1.5KV. Also not sure if what I explained to mecha above points to anything else I should be looking at? It's kind of odd to me.

 

[mecha]

lol my Polo always pulses. one of the greater mysteries of the world.

 

[mr.fixit]

Thanks for the insight mecha and you're absolutely right. Your challenge had me re-adjust my k7400 monitor and it is brighter now. But swapping it in and out of my MK4 project cabinet.....for some reason the colors look better on the Hantarex . Blame my crappy monitor adjustment skills, but I did the exact same thing to the polo. Could be the tube.
View attachment 860274
K7400 on left in MK3 project cabinet, Hantarex in right MK4 project cabinet.

Also not sure if this is also any clue to what's wrong with the polo, but it's causing distortion on the k7400. It's causing a ripple to travel up the k7400 screen when on. I disconnected the speakers and light in the MK4 cabinet just to make sure, but as soon as I unplug the polo the ripple stops on the K7400. It's not a grounding issue either, as soon as I move the MK3 cabinet farther away the ripple stops . Unplugged the degauss on the polo, no change. Didn't think cabinets together could do that.

I see this all the time in pairs of games. More than likely the polarity of the monitor power is swapped. Line and neutral. Even though there is an iso transformer it can still cauze distortion on another monitor on the same circuit. Or anything in the cab wired not correctly ie grounding , missing ground pin, or a fan wired backwards or a light fixture or a power supply. Anything introducing noise into the neutral. Emi filter, thermistor. If both games were plugged into the same GFI they would probably trip it.

 

[mr.fixit]

lol my Polo always pulses. one of the greater mysteries of the world.

I bet it's the poly caps. Pulses on warm up and goes away?

 

[mr.fixit]

Thank you! I'll give it a shot, I'll have to stop by my components store tomorrow to find the right voltage rating poly caps, saw that two of them are rated for 1.5KV. Also not sure if what I explained to mecha above points to anything else I should be looking at? It's kind of odd to me.

Ive seen polos blow hots because of the poly caps . The high voltage safety bleed of cap is almost always out of spec.

 

[mecha]

I bet it's the poly caps. Pulses on warm up and goes away?

never stops actually. I honestly don't remember if I replaced the poly caps on it, I had bought them years ago, but that's from a different lifetime for me. lol

 

[JukeboxJon]

never stops actually. I honestly don't remember if I replaced the poly caps on it, I had bought them years ago, but that's from a different lifetime for me. lol

Iirc I believe MKL or someone told me on hantarex polos replacing the poly caps is a must on bullet proofing it. Something about it stresses out other components and causes them to burn out or run too hot.

 

[mecha]

Iirc I believe MKL or someone told me on hantarex polos replacing the poly caps is a must on bullet proofing it. Something about it stresses out other components and causes them to burn out or run too hot.

yes, it's how you get stuck in a bootloop of replacing HOTs if you don't

very similarly the Neotec monitors need the electrolytic caps replaced because if they go out of spec that can lead to those getting hungry for HOTs as well

that's why I tell people to treat their games like classic cars. you have to change the fluids and replace the seals even if they're low mileage unless you want more expensive problems later.

 

[JukeboxJon]

yes, it's how you get stuck in a bootloop of replacing HOTs if you don't

very similarly the Neotec monitors need the electrolytic caps replaced because if they go out of spec that can lead to those getting hungry for HOTs as well

that's why I tell people to treat their games like classic cars. you have to change the fluids and replace the seals even if they're low mileage unless you want more expensive problems later.

right, now I dont fuck around its like it will take me 10 seconds to just replace this grandfathered in resistor thats still kinda in spec, lets just not be lazy and replace it anyway with a good quality APAR, mouser, digi anyway. I just said screw it they are super cheap for most components, just buy 25 of them for like .80 cents a piece and replace it. I mean ive seen Mike in videos and dont get wrong i love Mikes videos im a top fan. But dude why are you stealing that grandfathered in resistor form a parts chassis and just put a new one in lmao. but thats how he rolls hes old school.

 

[mecha]

right, now I dont fuck around its like it will take me 10 seconds to just replace this grandfathered in resistor thats still kinda in spec, lets just not be lazy and replace it anyway with a good quality APAR, mouser, digi anyway. I just said screw it they are super cheap for most components, just buy 25 of them for like .80 cents a piece and replace it. I mean ive seen Mike in videos and dont get wrong i love Mikes videos im a top fan. But dude why are you stealing that grandfathered in resistor form a parts chassis and just put a new one in lmao. but thats how he rolls hes old school.

he borrows a lot of parts. I judge people based on their success though, and he's very successful at what he does. if you want to use solder wick instead of pump tools, right on. if you're a console guy and you use flux on capacitors, whatever. he has the time to analyze these issues, I don't. I more than paid my dues where I work and where I used to work with monitors, it's just a thing that doesn't really interest me that much anymore. when I was in my 20s and had more time I was down with trying virtually anything. now I just stick to what I know I'm good at. the job in general I'm not entirely sure what to think of it anymore. next year is probably going to be my last.

 

[JukeboxJon]

he borrows a lot of parts. I judge people based on their success though, and he's very successful at what he does. if you want to use solder wick instead of pump tools, right on. if you're a console guy and you use flux on capacitors, whatever. he has the time to analyze these issues, I don't. I more than paid my dues where I work and where I used to work with monitors, it's just a thing that doesn't really interest me that much anymore. when I was in my 20s and had more time I was down with trying virtually anything. now I just stick to what I know I'm good at. the job in general I'm not entirely sure what to think of it anymore. next year is probably going to be my last.

Oh I get it. I dont run that many arcades is all Touchtunes jukeboxes, Arachnid Dartboards, valley pool tables and your IT games pga tour/GT live and Arcade collection now. The ones I do are for small town Pizza places, laundry-mats things like that. I get burnt out on the hobby part of working on chassis but then on other days I enjoy it lol. Mike has saved me countless amounts of money teaching me how to do it myself. I owe him like at least 2k hes probably saved me from "professionals" that will not even put in a cap kit for your 200-250$ send in. Its like they do it on purpose return customer, just whatever makes its run decent the bare minimum.

 

[mecha]

Oh I get it. I dont run that many arcades is all Touchtunes jukeboxes, Arachnid Dartboards, valley pool tables and your IT games pga tour/GT live and Arcade collection now. The ones I do are for small town Pizza places, laundry-mats things like that. I get burnt out on the hobby part of working on chassis but then on other days I enjoy it lol. Mike has saved me countless amounts of money teaching me how to do it myself. I owe him like at least 2k hes probably saved me from "professionals" that will not even put in a cap kit for your 200-250$ send in. Its like they do it on purpose return customer, just whatever makes its run decent the bare minimum.

we're living in a gilded age now because we have 40+ years of experience and knowledge go off of. plus our collective experience. back in the 80s/90s when a monitor crapped out the repair places or distributors I would venture intentionally did scotch tape and bubblegum fixes to ensure they would just fail again and they get your repeat business that way. at least with APAR we have higher voltage and temperature tolerance on the caps, it should last a lot longer.