Hanging prize machines victims of theft by lasers Namco Bulletin. Kids frying strings

[SegaAges]

It also depends on the game as well. A good example is Stacker. Now, I could be wrong, but from I read online, when you get to the grand prize, it will be programmed to skip over the winning item block and only go there every once in awhile.

I watched a video, I think it was on youtube, when it went in slow motion and you could see it skip over the winning block.

I have also been to Dave and Busters close to closing time and watched how they are told to handle the crane machines. I did not ask if it was policy, but it probably was. I don't remember what I was doing there, but it was almost closing time, and he opened up the crane machine and mushed all of the stuff down as hard as he could. I guess it makes sense why the crane games are hard

 

[ajcrm125]

It also depends on the game as well. A good example is Stacker. Now, I could be wrong, but from I read online, when you get to the grand prize, it will be programmed to skip over the winning item block and only go there every once in awhile.

I watched a video, I think it was on youtube, when it went in slow motion and you could see it skip over the winning block.

This is true... I am dead nutz with Stacker everytime and it's plainly obvious how it skips over the last block and denies you your price. I played for a little while before I realized what was going on.... if it's not based on skill then it's no different than playing a frickin slot machine. Total randomness.
Lame....

 

[TimmyFnD]

Have you seen the programming to the machine to know this to be true? Have you ever played a redemption game called cyclone? I'm pretty sure that if you arent pefect within the timeframe you will be off by just a split second. But its easier for everyone to complain that they got screwed and had no chance at winning because they werent number 1200 or whatever they want to believe that number to be.

This is true... I am dead nutz with Stacker everytime and it's plainly obvious how it skips over the last block and denies you your price. I played for a little while before I realized what was going on.... if it's not based on skill then it's no different than playing a frickin slot machine. Total randomness.
Lame....

 

[kjeffery]

Damn looks like Im going to buy me a high powered green laser

 

[Jeff F]

Have you seen the programming to the machine to know this to be true? Have you ever played a redemption game called cyclone? I'm pretty sure that if you arent pefect within the timeframe you will be off by just a split second. But its easier for everyone to complain that they got screwed and had no chance at winning because they werent number 1200 or whatever they want to believe that number to be.

Just look up the Stacker machines on Google and you'll see where they are adjustable in terms of payouts. I looked into the machine a couple years ago because I knew something was fishy after playing one for a bit. I did end up winning a Nintendo DS but I should have won 4 or 5 imho.

[edit]Found the manual here...
http://www.pandavending.com/MANUALS/TR1102_Manual.pdf

Page 4 goes through the switch settings for the odds of winning.

 

[TimmyFnD]

Just look up the Stacker machines on Google and you'll see where they are adjustable in terms of payouts. I looked into the machine a couple years ago because I knew something was fishy after playing one for a bit. I did end up winning a Nintendo DS but I should have won 4 or 5 imho.

[edit]Found the manual here...
http://www.pandavending.com/MANUALS/TR1102_Manual.pdf

Page 4 goes through the switch settings for the odds of winning.

And more importantly do you see where it says approximate odds. That doesn't mean that it's going to be a winner on the 2000th play like people here are saying. Also doesn't mean that there aren't going to be 2 winners right in a row. And more importantly that doesn't mean its all luck; you still need to have the skill to get to the top of the machine.

 

[norton9478]

So are the string cut games programmable to just not pay out?

I understand that they are a screw job by design (sloppy controls, optical illusions, weak cutters, etc).

I just wonder if you can program it to be impossible.

I don't play shit liek that anyways.

Then a second good placement would cut all the way through. Anyway, I probably dumped $30.00 in the machine and got (3) legit apple shuffles.

They used legit ones? I usually see knock offs.

 

[kjeffery]

http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html
found the perfect tool to get free shit, i bet it will cut through the new strings

 

[devils1982]

And more importantly do you see where it says approximate odds. That doesn't mean that it's going to be a winner on the 2000th play like people here are saying. Also doesn't mean that there aren't going to be 2 winners right in a row. And more importantly that doesn't mean its all luck; you still need to have the skill to get to the top of the machine.

.....but in the long run it averages out to paying 1 in xxxx times, by skipping past the "win" sector. Cyclone works the same way, along with the "Sports Arena" i have in my basement.

Video to proof (skip past the first 1:20 or so): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KW3Ody_XfE

 

[norton9478]

.....but in the long run it averages out to paying 1 in xxxx times, by skipping past the "win" sector. Cyclone works the same way, along with the "Sports Arena" i have in my basement.

Video to proof (skip past the first 1:20 or so): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KW3Ody_XfE

So say I just let it run for the full time.
So will it skip the win block every time it goes by? Or will it occasionally, randomly light the win block?

 

[devils1982]

So say I just let it run for the full time.
So will it skip the win block every time it goes by? Or will it occasionally, randomly light the win block?

it doesnt skip the block until you hit the button. you hit the button (even if at the right time)....if its not time for payout, skips to the next space.

 

[devils1982]

As far as the BarberCut Lite machines.....the board tracks the "win Zone" and with crafty sloppy controls, will only stop on them "an average of" 1 in XXX times. While it does take some skill, the board ultimately decides whether its time to pay out of not.

 

[mhkohne]

Just look up the Stacker machines on Google and you'll see where they are adjustable in terms of payouts. I looked into the machine a couple years ago because I knew something was fishy after playing one for a bit. I did end up winning a Nintendo DS but I should have won 4 or 5 imho.

[edit]Found the manual here...
http://www.pandavending.com/MANUALS/TR1102_Manual.pdf

Page 4 goes through the switch settings for the odds of winning.

OK, now I really want to take apart the code on one of these things and see how they vary the payout. The manual just says what the payout is, it doesn't say how the variance works. Anyone got a dump of the ROMs and perhaps a schematic? Not like I really have time for yet another project...

[edit] Ahh, already explained by devils1982. Devious. And so very, very borderline legal...If you don't have the skill, then you'll never win, but even if you've got the skill, you'll only win if it wants you to.

 

[devils1982]

so basically most REAL CASINO slot machines have a payout rate of 90%+, these machines payout about 10-12%, and people still play them. Basically like taking advantage of children, huh?

 

[LyonsArcade]

But I was using skill. So, I don't understand how it's random.

Does it randomize how hard the scissors cut?

I don't know about that one, I was talking more about the Stackers, etc.

 

[LyonsArcade]

I did not ask if it was policy, but it probably was. I don't remember what I was doing there, but it was almost closing time, and he opened up the crane machine and mushed all of the stuff down as hard as he could. I guess it makes sense why the crane games are hard

Not all operators do that. I used to operate cranes for a guy, there was a pot on the power going to the claw. Basically, you fill the machine with toys, then the next week, if the money works out to where 30 percent was what paid out, your'e good, and you adjust it tighter or looser from there.

So for instance, say you make 100 bucks. If the toys cost a buck apiece, and thirty are gone, then you're right on. You take the 70 bucks and split it with the location, and take 30 bucks to pay for the toys. That's how we operated them. So basically one in three people would win something, if it was a buck a play. One in six would win if it was 50 cents a play.

The game could still be won pretty consistantly if somebody was really good, but the claw is just tight enough that you can't win everytime even if it's dead on it.

It's a game. It's designed to make money.











What always struck me as hilarious about it (and some of the people on this thread, sorry!) is that people think that they are something special because they can line a fucking CLAW up over a teddy bear. That's not a skill. You shouldn't necessarily be rewarded for that. The rest of the game is "how hard is the bear stuck in there?" "how strong is the claw?" etc. It's not just target practice or anybody could win anything in the machine. Where's the game in that?

People have an attitude that "Oh, I got it right over the bear! I should have won!" LOL like that's some big accomplishment. It's hard to explain what's so funny about it.


BTW the 30% thing; that's what my boss had figured out was the best payout. If you make it easier to win than that, of course you make less money but also people play it less. If you make it harder to win than that, you make more money for a couple weeks but then nobody plays it.

I'm sure there's 100 different ways it's figured, but that's how he did it. Now the ops that push the shit down where you can't win it, or make the coil so loose you can't win anything, that's just stupid because nobody will play them after a while. The best mix is when people can win something for a few bucks if they keep at it.

 

[norton9478]

Pretty much.

If someone grabs down and shit looks like it is glued, they walk away and you only make a buck.

If someone picks up an item, moves it a few inches and it drops... They are likely to dump $5 in the machine to win something that costs you a dollar.

"'I've already given away eight pencils, two hoola dolls, and an ashtray, and I've only taken in fifteen dollars."
-"Navin, you have taken in fifteen dollars and given away fifty cents worth of crap, which gives us a net profit of fourteen dollars and fifty cents. "

 

[cleverlyj]

so i've never really paid attention to these machines before, so i have to ask.

is there just a giant chute that the prizes fall in to, so you could cut the wire or whatever without a game going and still win the prize?

 

[pseeds]

Not all operators do that. I used to operate cranes for a guy, there was a pot on the power going to the claw. Basically, you fill the machine with toys, then the next week, if the money works out to where 30 percent was what paid out, your'e good, and you adjust it tighter or looser from there.

So for instance, say you make 100 bucks. If the toys cost a buck apiece, and thirty are gone, then you're right on. You take the 70 bucks and split it with the location, and take 30 bucks to pay for the toys. That's how we operated them. So basically one in three people would win something, if it was a buck a play. One in six would win if it was 50 cents a play.

The game could still be won pretty consistantly if somebody was really good, but the claw is just tight enough that you can't win everytime even if it's dead on it.

It's a game. It's designed to make money.











What always struck me as hilarious about it (and some of the people on this thread, sorry!) is that people think that they are something special because they can line a fucking CLAW up over a teddy bear. That's not a skill. You shouldn't necessarily be rewarded for that. The rest of the game is "how hard is the bear stuck in there?" "how strong is the claw?" etc. It's not just target practice or anybody could win anything in the machine. Where's the game in that?

People have an attitude that "Oh, I got it right over the bear! I should have won!" LOL like that's some big accomplishment. It's hard to explain what's so funny about it.


BTW the 30% thing; that's what my boss had figured out was the best payout. If you make it easier to win than that, of course you make less money but also people play it less. If you make it harder to win than that, you make more money for a couple weeks but then nobody plays it.

I'm sure there's 100 different ways it's figured, but that's how he did it. Now the ops that push the shit down where you can't win it, or make the coil so loose you can't win anything, that's just stupid because nobody will play them after a while. The best mix is when people can win something for a few bucks if they keep at it.

That is how the operators I worked for ran cranes as well. People have to be able to win or they won't play. We had machines that were restocked daily. I run my single crane the same way as they did and do a 70/30 split with the location. It comes out to 40% for stock (where I try to keep it anyway), 30% to me, 30% to location. Still have vandals that will super glue the drop claw button in the down position, though, because they felt cheated ( I assume). Some people are just mean, though.

The rules for skill vs chance games have gotten much more loose in Texas. There are machines on location now that would not have been allowed 20 years ago - coin pushers, stackers, etc., and the value of the prizes has been allowed to increase.

 

[LyonsArcade]

Working with games like that (and like you do pseeds) shows such an interesting aspect of the general public. Normally perfectly sane, intelligent people will do some absolutely stupid shit when it comes to a silly little game like this. I was in a place once and a guy came over; he was an older guy who seemed like he was a nice enough person but he wanted me to go over and get his stuffed animal out of the crane, because it accidentally got stuck on the edge. Huh? I tried to explain to him that it was a game, and the object of the game was to get the toy to fall in the hole, and if it didn't make it all the way into the hole, you didn't win the game. He got all pissed.

Then I had another guy put a 20 in a jukebox, and want me to give him 19.50 in change. Huh?

Actually that happened a lot. People would put big bills in the JUKEBOX, thinking it was the change machine. I'd get calls about it. Wanting me to drive out to a location to give them their 'change'... of course they'd already played 20 bucks worth of songs, but eh.

BTW, what's wrong with teaching kids to gamble? Kids gamble anyways. Skip school, you're gambling you wont' get caught. Take Chemo, you're gambling it'll take care of the cancer. Drive over the speedlimit, you're gambling you won't flip your car. Life is a gamble. Kids should learn how to win and lose, early, and often.