Gulp...OK...here we go....Tempest running blind...I'm jumpin' in.

Wish

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Gulp...OK...here we go....Tempest running blind...I'm jumpin' in.

I'm gonna need some help in trying to figure out what's wrong with the Tempest monitor. Keep in mind this is my first arcade game, I have extremely limited soldering skills, and absolutely no experience working on PCB's....should be a piece of cake, right? heh heh.

So the Tempest runs blind....Here's a few posts with some info on the backstory of the Tempest and what has been done so far.

This first two are from Kalan, the guy who gave me the Tempest.

I put a zanen kit in the high voltage and deflection area of the monitor. I had the monitor working for awhile but the red was not coming up. The only part of the monitor I did not touch was the transistors on the chassis. There is deflection chatter and the spot killer was not on when we checked before the game left my house. I reflowed some of the pins on the tempest boards where the interconnect harness is. This game is very close to working. The boards may have a graphic issue though also. I had a lot of time wrapped up in trying to get that machine going. The monitor was out of a gravitar and had excellent color when it was working.

I believe it did have a harness issue, I tried 3 different ones and it came back with 3 different problems. I just got over working on it.


And the next couple are from Dean (herbersmart), who picked it up from Kalan and brought it out to Phoenix...he checked it out a little.

Yes the monitor neck glows and you can hear the deflection. I'll check the monitor board for the LED tonight when I get home. IIRC Kalan said it might be something with the harness???

Checked the connector last night and it did have one pin kind of sticking out the back so i pushed it back down, and it didn't seem to make any change. Didn't see the led light up on the monitor board? Any more ideas?

haul2009082.jpg

haul2009083.jpg

So keep in mind, that I know nothing about nothing about the tempest...I've been doing a little internet research, trying to learn a little bit more about what I need to do. I do appreciate any help in pointing me in the right direction though. :D

So...from my perspective, it plays blind, the buttons work and no problem with the sound. The monitor is blank. I do hear chatter (or at least my interpretation of what "chatter" sounds like)....I don't see the "neck glow" which Dean said he saw....I'm not exactly sure what "neck glow" is other than I imagine I should see some orange (?) type of glow from the back of the monitor.

I don't see that. No neck glow as far as I can tell (and I checked last night in a dark room....nothing glowing)

I don't know the correct terminology for all of the components yet...but occasionally the red LED lights up on the lower PCB on the left of the montor (is that the spot killer?). The PCB in the metal enclosure has an LED, but that one does not light.

I've already played around with the connectors and haven't seen anything obviously wrong. I haven't pulled out any of the PCBs at this point.

I probably will try to find someone to do any circuit board type of repair due to my lack of experience, but I'd like to try to figure out where the problem is, if I can, to build up some troubleshooting experience.

So that's about where I'm at and what I know.

Any helpful hints or tips to point me in the right direction would be appreciated.

Thanks all,
 
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You said the LED not in the cage (its on the deflection PCB / second picture in your post) which is the spot killer was lighting. How frequently is it lighting and how long does it stay lit?

Also, I'm not sure you could really see if it has neck glow without knowing exactly what your looking for because there is so much dust on the neck. ;) You look right at the piece of tube in the first picture between the purity rings and the PCB attached to the end of tubes neck. It doesn't really glow much even when clean, but you can see the heater element (looks like a lightbulb filament) gently glowing.

If the monitor worked in another game, I probably wouldn't be starting with the monitor. Unless of course he capped it after it was working without red and then got to this point. You should check the adjustment of the screen control on the back of the HV cage. There is one or two pots you can adjust depending on which version of the HV cage you have. You can grab that POT with one hand and then lean around the front of the game so you can see the screen, or setup a mirror. Adjust the screen control to see if you can make the image show up.

-VJ
 
That LED only comes on every once in awhile....most of the time it's not on...It lasts for a second or two....not long, when I did notice it light up.

I'll check the neck glow again in a few minutes...maybe I missed it expecting it to be brighter.
 
For a working 6100 with a good input, the spot killer will come on when your turn the game on, then turn off after a second or two. Then you should have an image on the screen. Have you tried turning up the brightness?

Also, if you can hear the game playing, then we assume that it's at least working, but not that it's outputting a signal to the monitor. Do you have anybody nearby with a Tempest you can visit to check your boards?
 
For a working 6100 with a good input, the spot killer will come on when your turn the game on, then turn off after a second or two. Then you should have an image on the screen. Have you tried turning up the brightness?

Also, if you can hear the game playing, then we assume that it's at least working, but not that it's outputting a signal to the monitor. Do you have anybody nearby with a Tempest you can visit to check your boards?

Mod, Do you know if tempest activates the spot killer at the end of the attraction loop? I want to say my space duel does, but it has been so long since I sat and watched a 6100 run through the motions from the back side I have forgotten. If it does, it explains the 1-2 second duration and that is why I was wondering if that would cause his temporary sighting.

-VJ
 
I just checked for the neck glow again. I wiped away some of the dust on the neck with a paper towel (should I be touching in there?!?!?! :eek:) with the machine unplugged.

Turned it on....dark room...there's no glow in the neck....unless I'm really confused as to what I'm looking for. I'm no stranger to vacuum tubes...growing up, my Dad used to take tubes from the stereo console or other devices and take them to Radio Shack or wherever and test the tubes in the tube tester thing....so I know what a glowing tube looks like.

That's my interpretation of "neck glow"....like a glowing vacuum tube.

The monitor neck is dark....no glow that I can see.

The spot killer came on when I was back there....it came on a couple times...there was "chatter" going on that seemed to coincide when the light came on. I didn't have it on that long...but it seemed like it came on after a few minutes, not initially when I powered on the game. I'll need to check that again to see if it stays off after the machine has been on for awhile.

I don't know anyone with a working Tempest locally....

So if there's no neck glow...what does that mean? The monitor could be dead or could it still be an electronics issue?
 
I just checked for the neck glow again. I wiped away some of the dust on the neck with a paper towel (should I be touching in there?!?!?! :eek:) with the machine unplugged.

Turned it on....dark room...there's no glow in the neck....unless I'm really confused as to what I'm looking for. I'm no stranger to vacuum tubes...growing up my Dad used to take tubes from the stereo console or other devices and take them to Radio Shack or wherever and test the tubes in the tube tester thing....so I know what a glowing tube looks like.

That's my interpretation of "neck glow"....like a glowing vacuum tube.

The monitor neck is dark....no glow that I can see.

The spot killer came on when I was back there....it came on a couple times...there was "chatter" going on that seemed to coincide when the light came on. I didn't have it on that long...but it seemed like it came on after a few minutes, not initially when I powered on the game. I'll need to check that again to see if it stays off after the machine has been on for awhile.

I don't know anyone with a working Tempest locally....

So if there's no neck glow...what does that mean? The monitor could be dead or could it still be an electronics issue?

The circuit for the heater is really simple. If it is not working and the tube was known to at least partially work, it is likely in the connections. If the heater isn't on, you won't be able to see an image on the screen. That is why it is one of the first things you check to know if it could show an image if everything else is good.

If the spot killer is coming on or extended periods of time while you hear chatter, that isn't good. My hope was that it was temporarily lighting between attraction loops, but I wouldn't have expected there to be chatter while that is occurring.

Since no one has a Tempest, do you know someone that has a oscilloscope that can view XY signals?
 
Mod, Do you know if tempest activates the spot killer at the end of the attraction loop? I want to say my space duel does, but it has been so long since I sat and watched a 6100 run through the motions from the back side I have forgotten. If it does, it explains the 1-2 second duration and that is why I was wondering if that would cause his temporary sighting.

-VJ

I don't recall off hand, as I haven't stared at it much either. I know it should flicker on and off several times. I usually see that when there is an intermittent failure in the deflection.

Sounds like the HV section may be dead...
 
I don't recall off hand, as I haven't stared at it much either. I know it should flicker on and off several times. I usually see that when there is an intermittent failure in the deflection.

Sounds like the HV section may be dead...

Since he doesn't have neck glow, it could just be in the heater circuit which doesn't go through the HV on the 6100 (unlike other chassis which use the HV). It comes off before the rectifier diodes even before F101 on the deflection PCB. It is the Black and Brown wires. The brown should be -7.3VDC compared to ground (black wire). There is only a single resistor, and diode in the heater circuit on the deflection PCB and a single resistor on the neck board. The heater element in the tube is the only other part.

One thought is that the neck board looks a little crooked in the picture. I'm wondering if it is not seated all the way onto the tube.
 
my bad, i see that now.

I would personally take the boards out and clean them. Then inspect for bad solder joints, etc. They are pretty dirty and that just makes it easier to miss something. Plus I just like them clean. Not to mention that the dust is like a thermal blanket which is bad for a vector. :)
 
I'll pull the boards out tomorrow and take a look. In terms of boards to be pulled, that's the two boards to the left of the monitor? The one with the spot killer LED and the one above it in the metal cage?

I need to learn the component names better. What's the "heater"? Something on the neck, but what is it, the PCB? I'm a noooooooobie! :confused: :p

I will check the boards out tomorrow. De-dust and inspect and I'll report back.

Thanks for all the help guys....

I'll check in again tomorrow in the evening...I've been pretty crunched at work...the next couple of months are gonna suck....so I'll be messing around with the Tempest on a time available basis....but it sure would be nice to have it up and running sooner rather than later.

And I don't know of anyone that owns an oscilliscope...but I can ask around if that's a tool that will help diagnose the problem.
 
... I don't know anyone with a working Tempest locally...

Arcadenut has one, he's out in Glendale... I'm not gonna volunteer him or anything, but... Brien is local, and a very cool guy with mucho repair experience. Shoot him a PM. And check out his arcade, it's badass!
 
I'll pull the boards out tomorrow and take a look. In terms of boards to be pulled, that's the two boards to the left of the monitor? The one with the spot killer LED and the one above it in the metal cage?

I need to learn the component names better. What's the "heater"? Something on the neck, but what is it, the PCB? I'm a noooooooobie! :confused: :p

I will check the boards out tomorrow. De-dust and inspect and I'll report back.

Thanks for all the help guys....

I'll check in again tomorrow in the evening...I've been pretty crunched at work...the next couple of months are gonna suck....so I'll be messing around with the Tempest on a time available basis....but it sure would be nice to have it up and running sooner rather than later.

And I don't know of anyone that owns an oscilliscope...but I can ask around if that's a tool that will help diagnose the problem.

The heater is the filament in the neck of the tube that glows. The major components are the tube, the neck board (attached to the neck of the tube), the High Voltage cage (metal cage with flyback inside), and the deflection PCB (with the spot killer). Another point of interest is the Anode cap. It is the suction cup looking thing on the end of the wire coming out of the HV cage. Don't touch it as that is the part that operates at 19.5KV. If you have to pull the HV cage you need to discharge the tube properly before you can disconnect the anode cap. There is another discharging thread going on right now that probably explains the process. I know there are also youtube videos for discharging monitors too.

-VJ
 
So can I pull the flyback PCB (in the cage) out without discharging the monitor? :eek: Or is the discharge needed only if you are removing the cage? Can you get the PCB out without removing the cage?

I haven't really looked at the best way to start disassembling things yet.

Maybe I'll just start with the deflection PCB...

:)
 
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