Gottlieb Sytem 1 Question

89pin

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I recently got a gottleib "dragon" pin. Driver board is new, MPU is original. Cleaned the connectors and it worked fine except for sound and pop bumpers. i was testing around with a power probe and when i hit the pop bumper switch and sent positive to the purple w/ white tracer wire it sparked and now game dose not start or boot. (yes i know dumbass mistake im new to this,) fuses are good all displays are all "0's" and when on for a min the tilt lights up and the playfeild goes out. unplug it and it goes back to the "0's" again. i would imagine i cooked something. the self test button dose nothing now too. im not sure if it the MPU or the driver board. any help is great. thanks.
 
hows the battery ? any acid damage from it leaking ?
check the pins inside the connectors between driver board and MPU(interconnect cable). common failure point those pins and wires are especially if theres acid damage
 
New driver board has no battery, I soaked the conectors in salt and vinigar and got them to shine. Ill try cleaning them again. Thanks
 
hows the battery ? any acid damage from it leaking ?
check the pins inside the connectors between driver board and MPU(interconnect cable). common failure point those pins and wires are especially if theres acid damage
Did you read his post? he shorted something out.
 
New driver board has no battery, I soaked the conectors in salt and vinigar and got them to shine. Ill try cleaning them again. Thanks

the pins inside the connectors get weak and dont grip as tight as they should to allow proper electron flow to operate the game correctly

just because they are shiny doesnt mean...

you can look into the connector to see if the spacing of the pins are all the same. bad pins have larger spacing than new ones do. that is if they all arent bad or are corroded from the battery. me ? i just build a whole new interconnect cable myself with all new pins and wires. new ones can be bought but i think they are too expensive, only because i can make one in about 45 minutes and dont have to wait for the mail
 
I recently got a gottleib "dragon" pin. Driver board is new, MPU is original. Cleaned the connectors and it worked fine except for sound and pop bumpers. i was testing around with a power probe and when i hit the pop bumper switch and sent positive to the purple w/ white tracer wire it sparked and now game dose not start or boot. (yes i know dumbass mistake im new to this,) fuses are good all displays are all "0's" and when on for a min the tilt lights up and the playfeild goes out. unplug it and it goes back to the "0's" again. i would imagine i cooked something. the self test button dose nothing now too. im not sure if it the MPU or the driver board. any help is great. thanks.

Purple/White is switch matrix return #5 on the Sinbad schematic (don't have a Dragon schematic handy). In any case we know it's part of the switch matrix. Hopefully you only fried the 7404 that's buffering those signals but I wouldn't expect that to cause the MPU to not boot.

In any case... you've got an MPU problem (IMO). If you blew up the 7404 you're golden. If you blew up U5 you're definitely not golden.

This should help you with the troubleshooting:
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm#cpu
 
I tested the two 7404 chips with a dmm. They all check out at .5-.6 except the two top right pins on both. those check at 0.293. The same on both normal? How would i check a U5 chip? if thats the case ill buy it.
 
I tested the two 7404 chips with a dmm. They all check out at .5-.6 except the two top right pins on both. those check at 0.293. The same on both normal? How would i check a U5 chip? if thats the case ill buy it.

Taking measurements on a 7404 like this is meaningless. How do you know the 0.5v is because of bad outputs or because of an oscillating output?
As a minimum, you need to check these with a logic probe. An O'Scope or Logic Analyzer is the best way but not many people own them.

However, you said the two top right pins are at 0.293V? Tough to know which pins these are without knowing how board is turned...but does this mean the two top right pins near the IC's pin 1 end identification? If so, have you checked your +5V to this board?

Top left of IC (with indent of IC oriented up) = pin 1, top right of IC is pin 14:
pin 1 = input 1 pin 14 = +5V
pin 2 = output 1 pin 13 = input 6
pin 3 = input 2 pin 12 = output 6
pin 4 = output 2 pin 11 = input 5
pin 5 = input 3 pin 10 = output 5
pin 6 = output 3 pin 9 = input 4
pin 7 = ground pin 8 = output 4
Outputs are always inverse of what is on inputs. So, if input is low, output is high and if input is high than output is low.
A valid low on the input is considered 0 to about 0.8 volts
A valid low on the output is considered 0 to 0.4 volts
A valid high on the input is a minimum of 2 volts
A valid high on the output is a minimum of 2.4 volts
When measured with a DMM - the readings can be all over the place as you are often measuring high speed signals. Only true way to see the levels is with the oscope or analyzer.

Dragon is a System 1 machine. If you lost a spider IC, you are talking about a lot of work replacing it (for a novice) and quite a bit of money.

Ed
 
Ok, Either im blind or stupid. (maybe both) I cannot find those 40 pin riot chips anywhere. i see those flat ones with different lenght pins.
 
Ok, Either im blind or stupid. (maybe both) I cannot find those 40 pin riot chips anywhere. i see those flat ones with different lenght pins.

It's a System 1... not a System 80. You won't find RIOT's on a System 1 board.
The spider IC's on that board are the predecessors to the 6502's and 6532's.
 
It's a System 1... not a System 80. You won't find RIOT's on a System 1 board.
The spider IC's on that board are the predecessors to the 6502's and 6532's.

Thanks Ed for the correction! I have the System 80 hardware in my head as of late.....:D
 
Ok. Thank you for clarafying all this for me. Ill run some more test based on the info from G-P-E and see what i come up with. If all else fails i purchased a nos MPU from some guy on ebay for $25 and a nos driver for $10 from the same guy. lets see what the outcome is.
 
Ok. Thank you for clarafying all this for me. Ill run some more test based on the info from G-P-E and see what i come up with. If all else fails i purchased a nos MPU from some guy on ebay for $25 and a nos driver for $10 from the same guy. lets see what the outcome is.

Wow.... Those are some cheap prices!
 
I see sharks too, but ive always had good luck on ebay. bought a motorcylcle for $200 with a "blown" engine when it needed all the carbs cleaned, my 71 williams solids n stripes for $75 when it just needed fuses and some cleaning of switches, and my AMI ROWE juke box for $50 from some guy who inherited it and just didnt want it. As far as the boards go, the story is he bought a house and a joker poker machine was left in the basement all busted up. (I mean truly busted, all glass broke no legs, sad basket case.) It powered and registered coins and went into play but had no balls in it. the whole machine was for sale with a buy it now for $100. So i asked him for those two boards and he said if it dose not sell there mine. the machine did not sell. So if they work, Great! If not, now i got my self some spares and maybe between the two ill make one.
 
I see sharks too, but ive always had good luck on ebay. bought a motorcylcle for $200 with a "blown" engine when it needed all the carbs cleaned, my 71 williams solids n stripes for $75 when it just needed fuses and some cleaning of switches, and my AMI ROWE juke box for $50 from some guy who inherited it and just didnt want it. As far as the boards go, the story is he bought a house and a joker poker machine was left in the basement all busted up. (I mean truly busted, all glass broke no legs, sad basket case.) It powered and registered coins and went into play but had no balls in it. the whole machine was for sale with a buy it now for $100. So i asked him for those two boards and he said if it dose not sell there mine. the machine did not sell. So if they work, Great! If not, now i got my self some spares and maybe between the two ill make one.

Doesn't sound like NOS to me.
 
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