Gottlieb System 1 ROMs, Wiring & PCB Repair.

Zcar

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Where is the best place to get the gottlieb roms?
I am in need of a "B" rom for my SInbad project.

I would also like to know if anyone sells the A1-J5 to A3-J1 (MPU to Driver) cable at a REASONABLE price. Someone is selling them on Ebay for $30 plus shipping. Thats too damn much. I have noticed Great Plains Electronics sells the pins and housings so I may go that way and fabricate my own if nobody knows of someone selling them at a fair price.

MPU repair VS. Ni-Wumph.......... Is there anyone that repairs or quotes repairs for these MPUs at a fair price and has a decent turn around time? I hate sending a board out for repair only to be overcharged and wait months to get it back.
I know the Ni-Wumph is a good board and the price is fair but if I go that way then what do I do with the 5 original MPUs I have now? A couple of them look almost new and at least deserve to be looked at.

Thanks!
 
Pinball Resource (might) still have some ROMs floating around...call or shoot them an e-mail.

Edward
 
As you know these ROM's are long obsolete. You can still find used ones around though. The good news is that many of these CPU's were scrapped or pulled, because of acid damge. So you might find someone that replaced their CPU, and held onto the original. Sinbad had the largest production of any Gottlieb game, so it will be easier to find that ROM, as opposed to other System 1's. Pascal Janin made an adaptor board, that allowed you to use a 2716 ROM. You can also make your own adaptor-find the pinout conversion on marvin3m.com

-Mark
 
The boards can be repaired, but I don't really know of anybody that does them reasonably. Apparently the spider chips crap out quite a bit. I fixed one a while back by just rebuilding the reset section, believe it or not it was those two weird caps in the center that were the actual problem, probably a nickel part. These games can be repaired if you just go through them slowly and check your voltage train all the way through the game. I even switched out a spider chip I thought was wrong, although it ended up being something else.

Do you have any of the pcb's that are almost working?
 
As far as the extra MPU's go....you can power them up WITHOUT the PROM. They will boot-up and almost appear to work. When you press the start button, it will lock up though. It would be worthwhile to power these up to see if they are at least booting up.
-Mark
 
The boards can be repaired, but I don't really know of anybody that does them reasonably. Apparently the spider chips crap out quite a bit. I fixed one a while back by just rebuilding the reset section, believe it or not it was those two weird caps in the center that were the actual problem, probably a nickel part. These games can be repaired if you just go through them slowly and check your voltage train all the way through the game. I even switched out a spider chip I thought was wrong, although it ended up being something else.

Do you have any of the pcb's that are almost working?

Thanks for the info on the reset section and the 2 caps. I think I will do a post asking about gottlieb system1 repair logs. See if anyone else around the forum repairs or has repaired them and what the original problem was and what it took to fix it. Like most things I bet there are a handfull of typical problems that happen over and over again.
 
The boards can be repaired, but I don't really know of anybody that does them reasonably. Apparently the spider chips crap out quite a bit. I fixed one a while back by just rebuilding the reset section, believe it or not it was those two weird caps in the center that were the actual problem, probably a nickel part. These games can be repaired if you just go through them slowly and check your voltage train all the way through the game. I even switched out a spider chip I thought was wrong, although it ended up being something else.

Do you have any of the pcb's that are almost working?

Oh, sorry forgot to answer your question. I am not sure if any of them work or not.
Marks (Tec9) post to this thread said I can power them up with no roms so I will try that as soon as I get a chance.
 
As far as the extra MPU's go....you can power them up WITHOUT the PROM. They will boot-up and almost appear to work. When you press the start button, it will lock up though. It would be worthwhile to power these up to see if they are at least booting up.
-Mark

Thanks Mark! That is great information. I will certainly try that as soon as I am sure my power supply is working OK and I replace the bad conectors in the game. Not only did the previous board leak acid and wreck the cable that goes between the MPU and driver but the acid got the connector next to it on the MPU that is part of the main wiring harness so that needs replaced too. I may just end up replacing all of them in the head. Great Plains Electronics here I come!
Btw... Would would happen if I was to test a MPU in my Sinbad that had a different games ROM? Would it still lock up if I tryed to start a game and how do you think it would play?
 
You could power the machine up with the incorrect game ROM, but many of switches and and three of the solenoids would be goofy. 5 of the 8 solenoids are the same, 3 chimes, knocker, and the outhole. The game would act real screwy, but it would power up, and it would attempt to play. Be advised that the slam swich must be closed for the orignal CPU attempt to boot. It will show 000,000 immediatley if it is not closed. You can also just jumper this on the CPU PCB, (jumper the leads on C2 together) so that you don't have to worry about the switch, connector, and wiring.
-Mark
 
Yep, you can run the game with the wrong game Prom in it. I accidentally did that once when testing a board. I left the joker poker rom in and I had a Charlie's angels.

All I'm saying is it works. Is it safe? Well I guess that depends on the differences in the game. I know I wouldn't have done it intentionally.

As for the CPU to Driver harness, $25-$30 is the going rate. You say that's expensive, but just how long do you think it would take you to build it with the proper wire colors. If you value your money over the time, then have at it. Many people have those values reversed, and thus $30 is cheap.

As for system 1 boards, too many things can go wrong with too many obsolete chips. It is incredibly easy for a short to knock out the switch matrix spider chip. All it takes is one row short and you are permanently effed - even if it is only a few switches. Thus, no one takes them in for repairs. The system 1 guide is pretty straight forward though, so if you have a logic probe you can pretty easily determine if yours is fixable...if you have the time. I had a pile of sys1 boards, but the first two I tried to repair lead to 'end of the road' spider problems so I abandoned that venture and got a Pi-1. Best darn decision I ever made. If you are going to pay someone $150 for repairs, you might as well pay the $170-$200 to Pascal and get his bulletproof board. It protects against stuck solenoid switches, solenoid OR GI shorts to logic, and a whole pile of new features. The board simply kicks ass and I can't recommend it enough.
 
I'm a huge fan of using "Original" Hardware......but I have to agree with Shardian. I wouldn't sink too much money into the original CPU's. If YOU can fix them, go for it, but I wouldn't pay someone $100+ to fix one. Simply not worth investing alot of money into these boards, when many of the parts on it, are obsolete. Take the money you would spend on repairs, and put it towards a replacement CPU. If it was ANY other hardware (System 80, System 11, WPC, ETC) I would say fix the original, but System 1 gets the exception in my book. I do however have original System 1 PCB's in my game. My machine came with a Ni-Wumpf CPU, and the original non-working CPU. I also found that I had three extra CPU's in a box that I got in deal years ago. I was luck enough to get 3 out of the 4 working, so I sold my Ni-wumpf.
 
I've never used Pascal's board, I didn't realize they were so inexpensive.

I've had two system 1's, one I replaced the board with a ni-wumpf, it kicked ass. I fixed the second one's original mpu, mainly so I could learn about them.

If youv'e got several boards, I'd fix it. Hell with 5 you'll be able to fix 1. If you're decent at soldering, you can switch a spider chip if you're careful and patient.

They're really not all that complicated, it's a fairly simple board.

The thing about the prom is right too, it'll boot without a prom. You'd have to use a logic probe probably to test the board, though if you don't have a prom to start the game with.
 
Pascal has 2 boards the PI-1 and the PI1X4. The PI1x4 is more expensive but it replaces all the boards logic, driver, power and sound for the System 1 games that have sound. You dont need that harness anymore so there is 30 bucks saved. I have seen it used in a Close Encounters and a Genie. Really liked it in the Genie.
 
Pascal has 2 boards the PI-1 and the PI1X4. The PI1x4 is more expensive but it replaces all the boards logic, driver, power and sound for the System 1 games that have sound. You dont need that harness anymore so there is 30 bucks saved. I have seen it used in a Close Encounters and a Genie. Really liked it in the Genie.

Any idea what the cost is for the PI1x4 is and who sells them?
I would prefer to purchase directly from Pascal if he sells them direct.
Does he have a website?
 
As for the CPU to Driver harness, $25-$30 is the going rate. You say that's expensive, but just how long do you think it would take you to build it with the proper wire colors. If you value your money over the time, then have at it. Many people have those values reversed, and thus $30 is cheap.


$25 to $30, dont forget shipping charges.
I bet I could build one in less then 2 hours. If I go to work and make $10 an hour I would have to work 3 or 4 hours to purchase one. If I was making less then $10 an hour..... Can you see where I am going with this?
If you have money falling out of your butt then good for you. I seen to have more time then money myself.
And what does wire color have to do with anything? Only the wire gauge (size) matters.
 
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