Gottlieb Big Brave EM Issues

JODY

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Got a Gottlieb Big Brave a couple months ago. New to working on pinball
machines and am learning.

One flipper was weak / buzzed, some lights were out, and the center bonus
lights would have two (seven and eight) light up at the same time. I
resolved all of these issues by installing part of a flipper rebuild kit,
changing bulbs, and fixing one bent connection resulting in two wires
touching each other on the stepper unit.

The remaining ones are that the lower lane lights (both sets on left &
right), the rollover disc lights (all 3), the pop bumper lights (2), and
the bonus target lights (regular target lights work) do not light up. They
should light up at certain points to indicate bonus scoring opportunities.
The bulbs are fine. The scoring appears to be working fine. E.g. the ball
going over a specific rollover may score 100 points and later score 500.
It appears the machine is completely working except the lights noted never
come on.

Anyone know what I should check / look for?

I bought a schematic and understand most of it but not the part where is says NOT 3D in reference to the circuit that controls all of the issues noted above.
 
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Got a Gottlieb Big Brave a couple months ago. New to working on pinball
machines and am learning.

One flipper was weak / buzzed, some lights were out, and the center bonus
lights would have two (seven and eight) light up at the same time. I
resolved all of these issues by installing part of a flipper rebuild kit,
changing bulbs, and fixing one bent connection resulting in two wires
touching each other on the stepper unit.

The remaining ones are that the lower lane lights (both sets on left &
right), the rollover disc lights (all 3), the pop bumper lights (2), and
the bonus target lights (regular target lights work) do not light up. They
should light up at certain points to indicate bonus scoring opportunities.
The bulbs are fine. The scoring appears to be working fine. E.g. the ball
going over a specific rollover may score 100 points and later score 500.
It appears the machine is completely working except the lights noted never
come on.

Anyone know what I should check / look for?

I bought a schematic and understand most of it but not the part where is says NOT 3D in reference to the circuit that controls all of the issues noted above.
Try this web site. http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

Glennon
 
Got a Gottlieb Big Brave a couple months ago. New to working on pinball
machines and am learning.

One flipper was weak / buzzed, some lights were out, and the center bonus
lights would have two (seven and eight) light up at the same time. I
resolved all of these issues by installing part of a flipper rebuild kit,
changing bulbs, and fixing one bent connection resulting in two wires
touching each other on the stepper unit.

The remaining ones are that the lower lane lights (both sets on left &
right), the rollover disc lights (all 3), the pop bumper lights (2), and
the bonus target lights (regular target lights work) do not light up. They
should light up at certain points to indicate bonus scoring opportunities.
The bulbs are fine. The scoring appears to be working fine. E.g. the ball
going over a specific rollover may score 100 points and later score 500.
It appears the machine is completely working except the lights noted never
come on.

Anyone know what I should check / look for?

I bought a schematic and understand most of it but not the part where is says NOT 3D in reference to the circuit that controls all of the issues noted above.

Light bulb sockets can be a big problem on the older games, try jumping a wire temporary from a working bulb to a non working one to see if it then lights. That many bulbs out may be broken common wire on the playfield that feeds them. Not sure what you mean by "NOT 3D" is the NOT a reference to the color of wire? the 3D a set of points on the score motor? stack #3, "D" the position of the contacts points on the stack. If that does not get it then look at the individual relays that control each of the ones not working.
 
Spent a little time on it tonight. Confirmed that the B, I, and G relays are working. They are a little brown but assume that is due to a lot of use during the game. They do move properly after each of the 3 rollovers are activated at the top of the game.

The schematic shows all the non-working lights going through those relays. I checked all the switches for those three relays and did a little adjusting but did not notice any change. When I accidently shorted two switches on one of the relays many of the non-working lights came on. There are places in the game where there are wires attaching switches or wires going between switch blades. On some I'm not sure they are supposed to be that way. By that I mean a wire is soldered to a switch blade and the bare end of that wire or a small bare wire also runs over and is soldered onto another switch blade no longer than 1/4" or so away. The second switch blade has another wire with insulation on it. Just glancing at it I would assume sloppy solder job and think it should be cut....is it normal for this to be this way in these old EM games? When the short caused some of the lighs to come on made me wonder if there is a missing small wire somewhere. There are a few places where a small 3 - 4 inch insulated wire runs between switch blades.

The common bare wire that goes to the non-working lights also runs to some working lights. I know the common wire is good.

I've attached a scan of part of the schematic that shows the NOT OR 3D and the circuits in question. Maybe it is supposed to read NO T OR 3D. T is the Tilt Relay according to the schematic. Nothing to the right of the NOT OR 3D is working. 11 lights never light up.

Something else I've noticed. On the bonus scorer there is a gear with teeth that turns one notch to move the bonus lights up one light. When the bonus lights reach the top it stays lit and it starts lighting at the bottom again. It goes up about half-way and then stops. It is stopping because there is a missing gear tooth. That particular tooth appears to have been ground down (not broken). Thus the bonus tops out at about level 15. Does anyone know if it was made this way? It appears it should go to at least 20. Could an operator have removed it to help prevent high scores?
 

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Spent a little time on it tonight. Confirmed that the B, I, and G relays are working. They are a little brown but assume that is due to a lot of use during the game. They do move properly after each of the 3 rollovers are activated at the top of the game.

The schematic shows all the non-working lights going through those relays. I checked all the switches for those three relays and did a little adjusting but did not notice any change. When I accidently shorted two switches on one of the relays many of the non-working lights came on. There are places in the game where there are wires attaching switches or wires going between switch blades. On some I'm not sure they are supposed to be that way. By that I mean a wire is soldered to a switch blade and the bare end of that wire or a small bare wire also runs over and is soldered onto another switch blade no longer than 1/4" or so away. The second switch blade has another wire with insulation on it. Just glancing at it I would assume sloppy solder job and think it should be cut....is it normal for this to be this way in these old EM games? When the short caused some of the lighs to come on made me wonder if there is a missing small wire somewhere. There are a few places where a small 3 - 4 inch insulated wire runs between switch blades.

The common bare wire that goes to the non-working lights also runs to some working lights. I know the common wire is good.

I've attached a scan of part of the schematic that shows the NOT OR 3D and the circuits in question. Maybe it is supposed to read NO T OR 3D. T is the Tilt Relay according to the schematic. Nothing to the right of the NOT OR 3D is working. 11 lights never light up.

Something else I've noticed. On the bonus scorer there is a gear with teeth that turns one notch to move the bonus lights up one light. When the bonus lights reach the top it stays lit and it starts lighting at the bottom again. It goes up about half-way and then stops. It is stopping because there is a missing gear tooth. That particular tooth appears to have been ground down (not broken). Thus the bonus tops out at about level 15. Does anyone know if it was made this way? It appears it should go to at least 20. Could an operator have removed it to help prevent high scores?
The small jumper wires you spoke of are correct. When the hold relay is engaged it should activate the playfield lights, so i would check the contacts on that relay.
If you would like to call me sometime I could probably walk you through it a little easier than doing it on here. PM me for my #
Glennon
 
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I've attached a scan of part of the schematic that shows the NOT OR 3D and the circuits in question. Maybe it is supposed to read NO T OR 3D. T is the Tilt Relay according to the schematic. Nothing to the right of the NOT OR 3D is working. 11 lights never light up.
Just read this part again and looked at your schematic. That says Motor 3d Which means "Score Motor" Should be switch stack #3 and switch D. Clean and adjust that switch and that may solve your problem.

Glennon
 
Major Progress

Just read this part again and looked at your schematic. That says Motor 3d Which means "Score Motor" Should be switch stack #3 and switch D. Clean and adjust that switch and that may solve your problem.

Glennon

Thanks. My score motor switch stacks have stickers for 2 and 4 but not 1 and 3. When pressing on the single switch at an angle from the others many of the lights came on. Later confirmed by looking at http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web Archives/www.Marvin3m.com (Sep-08-2003)/em/index1.htm that that switch is on stack 3. After a bit of cleaning it appeared to make good contact and the lights controlled by I and G started working....8 of the 11.

Then adjusted a switch on the B relay that was very picky and 2 more lights worked. Found the socket in the left pop bumber has some issues. Eventually got everything to work for a few games. I'll probably need to work on the left pop bumper socket some more as just touching the bulb can make it go out.

Lit up, can tell the three rollover red inserts need some cleaning.

Does anyone know about the missing tooth from the bonus score unit? I'm assuming that is not normal and I'll need to replace but not sure. More details are in an earlier post.
 
Thanks. My score motor switch stacks have stickers for 2 and 4 but not 1 and 3. When pressing on the single switch at an angle from the others many of the lights came on. Later confirmed by looking at http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web Archives/www.Marvin3m.com (Sep-08-2003)/em/index1.htm that that switch is on stack 3. After a bit of cleaning it appeared to make good contact and the lights controlled by I and G started working....8 of the 11.

Then adjusted a switch on the B relay that was very picky and 2 more lights worked. Found the socket in the left pop bumber has some issues. Eventually got everything to work for a few games. I'll probably need to work on the left pop bumper socket some more as just touching the bulb can make it go out.

Lit up, can tell the three rollover red inserts need some cleaning.

Does anyone know about the missing tooth from the bonus score unit? I'm assuming that is not normal and I'll need to replace but not sure. More details are in an earlier post.

The BONUS Stopping at 15 is correct, that is the max number points you can achieve. The missing tooth allows the unit to still pulse but not stepping to create a bind..bonus units need to stop somewhere.
 
The BONUS Stopping at 15 is correct, that is the max number points you can achieve. The missing tooth allows the unit to still pulse but not stepping to create a bind..bonus units need to stop somewhere.

Thanks. Good to know it is OK and that mechanically it appears everything is working as it should.

Thanks to everyone my knowledge of how the game works is greatly improved. Also, I know to not take the spacing between characters on the old schematics so literally. Plan to do some more cleaning on it this weekend and start to work on a very cheap Black Knight I picked up.
 
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