Gorgar flipper issues cont. Pics requested

Deadpool66

New member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
13
Location
Minnesota
Ive come to a point were I'm not sure what step i should take next. I replaced the cabinet switches and no dice flipper is very slow to respond almost like it doesn't get enough juice initially to spring up fast enough. So I then replaced the coil with a new one same issue. However I decided to try switching the two wires connected from the coil to the end stroke switch . Doing this causes the flipper to work very well but it I'm almost sure its not supposed to be hooked up like this as it buzzes slightly louder than the other side and gets warm fairly quickly.

Would anyone be willing to a take picture of the wiring on their left flipper assembly? I want to know if my wiring was hooked up wrong when I rebuilt the flippers or if this is another issue somewhere else on the machine.
 
Last edited:
You mentioned changing the cabinet switch, but did you also replace the EOS switch? If your EOS is old and pitted the flipper will be sluggish.

The photo below should help you determine if the coil is wired correctly.
 

Attachments

  • s6coil2.jpg
    s6coil2.jpg
    59.8 KB · Views: 56
Well there is no ground wire wtf? Eos switch is new along with cabinet switch and coil. I imagine the original owner has done somthing fucky with the wiring as its not original at all on the flippers.

Lack of ground would that cause the issue?
 
Yeah there should be a common ground between all of the coils... Is there no ground wire on those either?

The right flipper has a ground wire with a total of 4 wires on the coil the left only has the three Ill up some pics when I get home. thing is it was working fine and then boom slow as hell. Reversing the power break switch wires and and the thing is uber powerful but this is incorrect I'm thinking.
 
Yeah there should be a common ground between all of the coils... Is there no ground wire on those either?

On Williams games there are separate grounds for the flippers coming through the flipper relay and to the cabinet switches then ultimately to the flipper when the cabinet switch is closed.

Positive voltage to the coils is common (on Gorgar) but not ground.
 
Be careful switching wires around on the coil's lugs....you can blow the coil diodes out.

Edward
 
Now my other flipper is sluggish ;-( I really need to get this working again or its essentially a 700 dollar paper weight any ideas maybe a new driver board would fix the issue?
 
Now my other flipper is sluggish ;-( I really need to get this working again or its essentially a 700 dollar paper weight any ideas maybe a new driver board would fix the issue?

Nah, both flippers run off the same relay, and it's just a switched ground anyway. New driver board won't do anything.

I'd start with a check of the voltages at both flippers, see if one has lower voltage. If the voltages are good, it's just a matter of finding where there might be a problem. Trace the wiring along, until you find the problem. Another possibility is mechanical slop, wear, or binding in the flippers.

If you can, a good photo of each flipper would be a huge help. Try to take 2 photos, one of each flipper that fills the screen.

-Hans
 
Usually a sluggish flipper has nothing to do with the driver board (or any of the boards, for that matter).

Some of the common culprits.....
A mushrooming plunger, rubbing on the coil sleeve as it moves through it.

A worn or gummed up coil sleeve...has anyone tried to lube it in the past (a big no-no, but very common to see).

Worn, loose, or stripped screws on any parts of the flipper assembly.

A worn flipper link....where the (usual) round holes are now oblong.

A shot, dirty, mis-adjusted flipper end of stroke switch.

A shot, dirty, mis-adjusted flipper button switch.

A coil that has gotten hot....to the point of constricting the plunger while traveling through it.

A creatored coil stop....momentarily holding the plunger, rubbing power.

A broke or binding flipper return spring...robbing plunger power.

I think that covers it;).
Edward
 
Usually a sluggish flipper has nothing to do with the driver board (or any of the boards, for that matter).

Some of the common culprits.....
A mushrooming plunger, rubbing on the coil sleeve as it moves through it.

A worn or gummed up coil sleeve...has anyone tried to lube it in the past (a big no-no, but very common to see).

Worn, loose, or stripped screws on any parts of the flipper assembly.

A worn flipper link....where the (usual) round holes are now oblong.

A shot, dirty, mis-adjusted flipper end of stroke switch.

A shot, dirty, mis-adjusted flipper button switch.

A coil that has gotten hot....to the point of constricting the plunger while traveling through it.

A creatored coil stop....momentarily holding the plunger, rubbing power.

A broke or binding flipper return spring...robbing plunger power.

I think that covers it;).
Edward

Ive completely rebuilt the flippers and the motion is fluid. New coils, Eos, Switches, ect. Seems to me there not getting enough power but Im a novice so what I think is irrelevant.
 
Ive completely rebuilt the flippers and the motion is fluid. New coils, Eos, Switches, ect. Seems to me there not getting enough power but Im a novice so what I think is irrelevant.

Did you check the flipper button switches?....usually not included with a rebuild kit. These switches get pitted just like the EOS switches....file, clean and adjust as needed.

Edward
 
Did you check the flipper button switches?....usually not included with a rebuild kit. These switches get pitted just like the EOS switches....file, clean and adjust as needed.

Edward

Yep replaced those as well.
 
What is the voltage at the flippers?

At this point you could manually jump solenoid voltage from the power supply to the coil. If the flippers are suddenly stronger you know the problem is on the positive side of the circuit. Maybe a connector or something. Then do the same thing on the ground side. That should at least narrow it down for you. The issue could be at the driver board but you probably don't need to buy a new one. The issue could be a connector problem at the power supply or driver board. It could also be in the flipper relay contacts but there is a set for each side so it seems unlikely that they would both be causing an issue at the same time but it's possible. You can always bypass the flipper relay to see if it's contributing to the problem.
 
Here are some up close pics. Anyone see anything wrong? Im going to bust the multi out and get a reading in just a few minutes.
 

Attachments

  • P1011017.jpg
    P1011017.jpg
    99.8 KB · Views: 26
  • P1011018.jpg
    P1011018.jpg
    96.5 KB · Views: 28
  • P1011020.jpg
    P1011020.jpg
    97.1 KB · Views: 25
  • P1011021.jpg
    P1011021.jpg
    92 KB · Views: 24
  • P1011022.jpg
    P1011022.jpg
    97.4 KB · Views: 21
I would get rid of those crimp on connectors and solder directly to the coil. You'll never maintain a solid connection with those connectors and all the vibration with the plunger hitting the coil stop directly above the lugs...
 
I would get rid of those crimp on connectors and solder directly to the coil. You'll never maintain a solid connection with those connectors and all the vibration with the plunger hitting the coil stop directly above the lugs...

While you're at it flip the coils so the lugs are opposite to the coil stop. Less vibration will go into the connections that way.
 
Followed your advice switch the coils around and jumped them with the Power supply and boy do they slam the ball. Strange thing now is the left side is working fine but the right has become weak unless I give it direct current.

I decided to check the connectors in the head and I noticed on the driver board that the row of reddish brown Diodes are blackening and the board looks a bit burnt underneath Ive included a pic of a driver board not mine because I'm at work. Not sure if this is normal either but I touched the fuse holder for the sound amp and it shocked the shit out of me machine was off is this normal that there would be active current?

I know its kinda annoying but would someone please take a pic of how your flippers are wired? I'm wondering if the damn things are just wired up wrong.

I'm fucking determined to learn how to fix this monstrosity ;-)
 

Attachments

  • WMS_Sys3-6_drvr.jpg
    WMS_Sys3-6_drvr.jpg
    103.3 KB · Views: 16
Last edited:
The reddish brown items you describe are the 27ohm 3 Watt Power resistors for your Lamp Matrix. They get very hot and if the MPU ever locks up they will get molten hot and blacken/desolder themselves right of the board. You can replace all of them with 27ohm 5 Watt sand resistors.


There was probably current stored in the cap on the sound board and when you touch the fuse it discharged into you.

I would rebuild every connector and replace every header pin in the power chain to the flippers.

You also need to measure how much power you're getting at the flipper coil when its strong vs. when its weak.
 
The reddish brown items you describe are the 27ohm 3 Watt Power resistors for your Lamp Matrix. They get very hot and if the MPU ever locks up they will get molten hot and blacken/desolder themselves right of the board. You can replace all of them with 27ohm 5 Watt sand resistors.


There was probably current stored in the cap on the sound board and when you touch the fuse it discharged into you.

I would rebuild every connector and replace every header pin in the power chain to the flippers.

You also need to measure how much power you're getting at the flipper coil when its strong vs. when its weak.

Bummer Thought that might be the issue I ordered new resistors anyways.
 
Back
Top Bottom