Getting Busy Cpo Overlays?

[HFK]

I don't understand what I am seeing. Okay, some of the holes look like they are not all the way through? Just part punched out? Why the big holes in them, did you try to use a smaller saw first and then go to a larger size?

Are the button holes in the wrong place? If not it looks like you could easily finish the holes since you have an impression already, just go slow. Or sand / file out the rest of the hole. Many ways to finish them, just never quite seen those results from a hole saw before.

 

[Thomas]

I don't understand what I am seeing. Okay, some of the holes look like they are not all the way through? Just part punched out? Why the big holes in them, did you try to use a smaller saw first and then go to a larger size?

Are the button holes in the wrong place? If not it looks like you could easily finish the holes since you have an impression already, just go slow. Or sand / file out the rest of the hole. Many ways to finish them, just never quite seen those results from a hole saw before.

Two holes are all the way through for the joysticks. The rest cannot be all the way through because those are for the leaf buttons. In order to fasten the buttons you need a smaller hole for the bottom or the nut that hold them down will just fall straight through the a 1 1/8 hole. If that makes any sense.

I went pretty slow and spent quite a few hours but the hole saw didn't do a really clean job.

My process was to mark center on the holes then drill through with a small drill bit to be on center. I then took the 1 1/8 hole saw and drilled through half the panel. I then set up the hole saw with a smaller bit and finished the hole from the back where I could.

This gave me a ledge to rest the buttons in. This also left me enough meat on the bottom of the panel so I could screw down the buttons.

There are at least three holes that are off. Player 1 and 2 then reverse/flap on the left. I butchered it pretty good.

This is where I had the most concern because trying to drill dead center of a circle is kinda tough. I was off center on those three buttons and it has throw the whole darn panel off.

The only way I could figure out how to get dead center was a ruler. I measured top and bottom and marked it at 9/16 then side to side and marked it at 9/16.

I wish I had a better way to find dead center because this is where I went wrong. I was off...

I hope that makes sense...

 

[HFK]

If you had an overlay already line it up on the panel and tape in place, take the empty hole saw and line up over the holes. Next take an awl or icepick, whatever you have, put through the center and make a point for the drill bit to center on.

To make a partial hole you would need to go slowly with the hole saw and use a chisel to get the bits out, if you want to do it the hard way.

You need a spade bit for those. The best way is to use a drill press but after a little practice you can get depths down easily and straight. Get your main hole down to the depth you need then for the rest either use a big enough drill bit or a smaller spade, you already got your center and haven't gone all the way through yet so you are good.

That panel is looking pretty rough right now. I give you props for trying to fix it, I would have built a new one, maybe you can too. This can be your introduction to woodworking, it really isn't as hard as it seems, with the right tools. If not, I would think it might be best to find another out there.

 

[Thomas]

If you had an overlay already line it up on the panel and tape in place, take the empty hole saw and line up over the holes. Next take an awl or icepick, whatever you have, put through the center and make a point for the drill bit to center on. .

Now that would get me closer to center but it wouldn't be full proof. To much slack in the center of the hole saw. But in general the idea is great now to figure out what would put me on center based on the info your provided.

One thing is sure I wont use the ruler again...

As far as the panel it was swiss cheese when I started and now it really is one big block of swiss...

I have another stargate panel that I could fill that also has some hacks but not quite as bad as this one when I started out.

Or I could just fill my three mistakes with bondo and drill them again...

I don't like having panel with all kids of holes in them but I don't have the skills to build one of those. So this is my only avenue to use the hacked ones I have.

New repro ones would really help...

 

[HFK]

Looking at this again I am confused again. That is the top of the CP in your pic, right? Buttons have a flange around them and won't go through the hole if you drill the right size, how do you think metal CPs work?

 

[HFK]

You can use the ruler again, put the overlay on and draw a cross through the hole. For precision and until you master it you need to make a start for the drill bit, like I said an awl, just like an icepick. Make a start spot to center the drill bit, same with a spade bit. (make a start hole, a gouge)

 

[HFK]

Okay, I just looked at my Joust cocktail and kinda understand, most leaf switch games hade a big leaf switch base to hold them in place. The switches on my ct are held in place by a bracket mounted to the side, never looked at my old Williams games that I had in the past that much, the never needed work.

If the holes are not too far off you can still save it, just use a thin piece of plexi, or a big washer, even a thin piece of wood on the back (drilled out) before the button nut.

 

[YellowDog]

Looking at this again I am confused again. That is the top of the CP in your pic, right? Buttons have a flange around them and won't go through the hole if you drill the right size, how do you think metal CPs work?

Metal CPs use those white plastic spacers that have the hole for the button on one end and a plastic block with threaded holes for the leaf on the other.

ken

 

[YellowDog]

You just need to fill the base part in, unless the top hole is too far off, then just fill and drill again. The suggestion about the awl is a good one. On occasion I have used thumbtacks. I line the CPO up on the control panel and use a couple of those big spring clamps you can buy at HD for a buck to hold it down. Then I stick a thumbtack into the center of each hole.

If the overlay is not printed with the center point a good way to cheat before you stick the thumbtacks in, is to take a protractor (yes the old POS things for drawing circles in grade school). Set it to about half the diameter of the hole and draw 5 of 6 arcs using the point part on the edge of the hole. This will give you a point where the lines intersect. That is the center of the hole. Do that to each of the holes and then clamp it down. Then thumbtack away. The clamps should hold it steady.

When you have poked all of the holes, pull the thumbtacks out, unclamp the CPO and carefully lay it aside. now you have the center of the hole marked. Drill a pilot hole with a 1/8" drill bit.

Take the large hole saw and carefully drill in from the top using the pilot hole as a guide. Only go in 3/8 of an inch (a littlemore if you have long shank buttons). When you are drilling have your drill going fast but don't use a lot of pressure. That will give you the cleanest cut.

Next take the smaller hole saw and drilling from the top also (you saw what happened when you drilled from the back...) drill the small plug all the way through. I usually have a small scrap of wood clamped on the back to prevent splintering when the saw breaks through. Once the center plug has been removed, use a wood chisel to carefully carve away the little ring that is the difference between the inner and outer holes.

Unless you have a drill press with an extension mandrel you will find it almost impossible to reproduce the original angle trying to drill from the back. Part of that is just that with the over hang of the back side of the CP it is difficult to get the drill perpendicular to the top of the CP.

ken

 

[HFK]

Metal CPs use those white plastic spacers that have the hole for the button on one end and a plastic block with threaded holes for the leaf on the other.


ken

You are right Ken, BTW thank you for all the help with my Joust.

Besides my other suggestions buy some new micro-switch buttons for wood panels, full body and a big retainer to hold it in place. As long as you don't mind micro-switches.

 

[HFK]

Good advice Ken, we keep posting at the same time. I was just trying to keep it as simple as possible.

 

[modessitt]

Screw all that. If the only problem is that the smaller interior holes are off center, just use your hole saw to cut all the way through, then get a big stiff piece of plastic or thin sheet metal that's bigger than the 1-1/8" hole and drill the smaller hole in that. Use it as a washer or mounting plate, put your button in, stick the washer or plate over it, and tighten down your nut. Easy.

Or take the button to the hardware store, find a washer with a center hole big enough for the button shaft but smaller than the nut, and a diameter bigger than 1-1/8". You'd be done in about 5 minutes...

 

[HFK]

Screw all that. If the only problem is that the smaller interior holes are off center, just use your hole saw to cut all the way through, then get a big stiff piece of plastic or thin sheet metal that's bigger than the 1-1/8" hole and drill the smaller hole in that. Use it as a washer or mounting plate, put your button in, stick the washer or plate over it, and tighten down your nut. Easy.

Or take the button to the hardware store, find a washer with a center hole big enough for the button shaft but smaller than the nut, and a diameter bigger than 1-1/8". You'd be done in about 5 minutes...

Which I already said (no offense) or buy new buttons for a wood CP.

 

[modessitt]

Which I already said (no offense) or buy new buttons for a wood CP.

Ah, I missed it at the bottom of one of your posts....

 

[Thomas]

Thanks for all of your help. I guess I am going to start with another panel. Kens protractor idea had me looking on line. While doing that I found this neat little java movie.

Finding the center of a circle using any right-angled object

http://www.mathopenref.com/constcirclecenter2.html

You will need sun's java installed to see the movie... The movie explains one way to find dead center for drilling the buttons. I know this is where I went wrong. Not to mention using a hole saw instead of a good spade bit.

I do notice another issue on the first panel. If you look the inviso button is almost on the lower corner of the panel.

This was with the cpo lined up perfect to the top. I have looked at other peoples panels and there inviso is up higher (not so close to the bottom).

The problem is there doesn't seem to be enough slack to wrap the top of the cpo over the edge to move the buttons up. Then have enough room at the bottom to cover.

I will need to get a picture of the cpo held on by the buttons so you can get a good feel for what I am saying.

Anyway I have another panel. It only has one extra hole so that should make for a much better multi panel.

Here is the picture below of a much better panel to start with... Not that much swiss on this one!

 

[Thomas]

You can kinda see in these snaps how low the button really is as compared to the front edge of the control panel.

When I look at other peoples cp's they seem a bit higher.

The buttons are so low that they are over top of the wood supports on the back.

I would half to take a chisel and cut into the wood supports. In order to get the nut on them because the buttons are so low. This really sucks that I will need to hack up the panel/supports...

 

[Thomas]

I now have two new spade bits in hand one is 5/8 and the other 1 1/8. I also picked up two clamps to hold a scrap piece plywood under the main panel. This way when I drill I wont splinter the darn thing.

(I am learning that this arcade game is attached to my wallet. It's not like chicks where you can just put your wallet inside a rubber.) lmao...

Now I still think the cpo needs to go up past the top and wrap to get the buttons away from the bottom a little.

Anyone else have this cpo and wrapped it over the top when they applied it?

Did you have enough room at the bottom to finish? I wonder how to do the correct math to figure it out? Looks short to me...

 

[YellowDog]

You can always test it by clamping it at the top and seeing where it falls when you wrap it around. If you have enough to spare, you can move the top up a little and trim it off after it is applied.

The bottom is going to be covered by the hinge so a little won't show.

BTW, as I recall, I had to carve out a little on the support for the bottom two buttons as well. That is just how they fit.

ken