p1899m
New member
I think the board issues are due to the fact that the original power supply heats up the inside of the cab to the point you could bake a cake.
Games with the worst design flaws
- Thread starter Tornadoboy
- Start date
I think the board issues are due to the fact that the original power supply heats up the inside of the cab to the point you could bake a cake.
Really!?
The game starts over when you press 1PL while a game is going. It kills off your game!
I have seen this in the arcade, on a 48-in-1, and on MAME! I just tried it on MAME and it behaved as I described.
hmmm..
CrazyKongFan
Well-known member
Hmmm...you sure you didn't get a whiff of some magic smoke?
I tried in a couple versions of MAME (106 and 134), and couldn't get it to start over. I don't even know how that would work on a 48-in-1, as it only passes the number of credits into the actual game emulation that's needed (1 credit for 1 player, 2 for 2 players...I just tested it on mine), unless maybe if you have all the other games turned off (I didn't try that, and don't feel like going thru the entire menu shutting off the other 47). I did get it to start a new game in MAME after the game was over and I was on the high score screen where you enter your initials in.
Don't feel bad... I tried it in MAME too and it did nothing. Perhaps I was doing it wrong? Perhaps I need to wait longer. But now that I hear that is simply starts a new game... I don't much care to even bother.
I was hoping it would do something cool.
I was hoping it would do something cool.
kcfreeloader
New member
I've got the real machine at home and can't get it to do that. I put in two credits, press player one, play for a bit, then press player one.
How long are you playing before you hit player one again?
Could be a specific revision....
roothorick
Active member
Oh... not really a game so much, but I still think it's pretty relevant. QubicaAMF's Highway 66 minibowling system. For a company that's been doing pinsetters for something like 40 years, they appear to have learned absolutely nothing about pinsetter design. I have a list going:
Even management agrees that we should have never gotten the system and spent the money on more games instead. I think we should rip it out and, yeah, buy more games, or perhaps a good motion simulator ride, but they're worried about sunk costs.
What's wrong with Namco? Given, we only have two of their games, but I've been *very* impressed with the Time Crisis 4 cabinet and manual. Better built than pretty much everything we have. The guns kinda suck, but really, all lightguns suck. We also have a Jumpin' Jackpot that has some kind-of dumb design mistakes regarding the platform, but it doesn't bother me much. Then again, I'm pretty jaded, having to deal with a gameroom with a substantial Family Fun Companies presence...
- I've never had a chance to probe it myself to see exactly what's going on, but there's something seriously, seriously messed up with the communications protocol between the QAMS scoring computer and the TMS controller. Communication will spontaneously stop for no apparent reason, resulting in a stalled pinsetter and a completely clueless computer. Sometimes you can get it going again by resetting and recycling the pinsetter, but usually you have to completely reset both computer and controller to get it going again. Oh, did I mention, each computer/controller pair controls two lanes, and takes upwards of two minutes to boot? GREAT thing to have to do on a busy Saturday with an angry crowd around you.
- Remembering the pin deck location is too much to ask for from the TMS pinsetters. Its sense of "pins are down" will gradually drift upwards, resulting in it eventually SLAMMING the pins into the deck at full speed. This usually results in a pin falling over, so it'll pick up the pins and try again -- WHAM. WHAM. WHAM. At least they use some seriously tough pins -- we somehow haven't cracked one yet.
- Throwing a ball at exactly the wrong moment will outright crash the pinsetter controller. The red light will stay on forever and the pinsetter won't move. How do you fix this? Reset the controller, which breaks communication with the computer, so you have to reset that too. Cue two minutes of waiting for the damn thing to wake up all over again as your customers bitch you out for "interrupting their game".
- A QAMF support representative outright told me that the QAMS computers need to be on their own breaker because their power supplies can't filter AC correctly. Seriously. (If you're curious: the offending computer actually had a faulty DVD drive.)
Even management agrees that we should have never gotten the system and spent the money on more games instead. I think we should rip it out and, yeah, buy more games, or perhaps a good motion simulator ride, but they're worried about sunk costs.
What's wrong with Namco? Given, we only have two of their games, but I've been *very* impressed with the Time Crisis 4 cabinet and manual. Better built than pretty much everything we have. The guns kinda suck, but really, all lightguns suck. We also have a Jumpin' Jackpot that has some kind-of dumb design mistakes regarding the platform, but it doesn't bother me much. Then again, I'm pretty jaded, having to deal with a gameroom with a substantial Family Fun Companies presence...
I played through the first level. Let me see what version of MAME- it is older, I know that...
MAME32 0.73
It does it right from the start too. When you press 1PL with a credit in reserve, it restarts from the intro.
I've got the ROMS for the Mappy (US) version.
Maybe I'm the only one that remembers this. I recall one of the mall urchins pressing the start button while I was in a game way back in the day.
Of course, I am crazy also...
JamBurglar
Well-known member
Don't forget the Nintendo hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
CrazyKongFan
Well-known member
I played through the first level. Let me see what version of MAME- it is older, I know that...
MAME32 0.73
It does it right from the start too. When you press 1PL with a credit in reserve, it restarts from the intro.
I've got the ROMS for the Mappy (US) version.
Maybe I'm the only one that remembers this. I recall one of the mall urchins pressing the start button while I was in a game way back in the day.
Of course, I am crazy also...
OK, I did confirm it finally, but it appears to only happen in older versions of MAME. I tried a really old version, MAME32 v35, and also WolfMAME 78, and it did worked in both. It didn't work on WolfMAME 101, 106 (the one I normally use) and 134.
GuidoTorpedo
Well-known member
QUOTE:What's wrong with Namco? Given, we only have two of their games, but I've been *very* impressed with the Time Crisis 4 cabinet and manual. Better built than pretty much everything we have. The guns kinda suck, but really, all lightguns suck. We also have a Jumpin' Jackpot that has some kind-of dumb design mistakes regarding the platform, but it doesn't bother me much. Then again, I'm pretty jaded, having to deal with a gameroom with a substantial Family Fun Companies presence...[/QUOTE]
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If you like dropping a mortgage payment everytime something needs to be fixed, then Namco's great. Evere had a machine gun ripped off of a Crisis Zone? I have. Know what one costs new? Around $800. I never did order any Barber Cuts, but I know many who did. One in particular told me about how he had to order more prize strings. Apparently, you could only order them in a certain quantity lot. Price? $200... FOR STRINGS. When he confronted Namco about the price, they said "they are special strings". SPECIAL STRINGS? Holy hell, are they made for fishing in the fountain of youth or something?
The best fallacy is the reunion board. 30 years later, and they can't even emulate the game THEY CREATED better than the guys in Taiwan kicking out multi boards. Ms Pac/Galaga boards are notorious for having that high score glitch, where the characters in the high score turn into foreign characters. Sure, Namco will fix it, for around $250. I even know of one vendor who is a KLOV regular, who bitched one time about spending over $400 on a Ms Pac/Galaga home use only board repair! What does it cost to MAKE this board, like $20? They released Pacman 25th, and that had MORE issues off the bat than Ms Pac/Galaga! It's freaking PACMAN, not the WOPR from Wargames damnit!
My last brew ha with Shamco was when I had bought 2 Rockin Bowl A Rama kits. They should have called this game Rockin Bowl of Shit. Hardly ever made money compared to my Silver Strikes. The game uses a thumb flash drive (another cheap out, put a hard drive on there with some capacity) to store critical game data. Well, I had one in particular that kept eating flash drives. One blew up, so I bought another at Betson. $175. About 6 months later, it blew up again! Another $175. Only 3 months pass, and this one bites the dust. So I call Namco tech support. They tell me to upgrade the RAM. I ask the guy "look this will be the fourth drive I'm throwing on this. Each time. I have to go to Betson and spend $175 to get this drive. I don't even think the game has made $175 since the last drive I replaced. Can Namco provide me with a drive here, since it is obvious that this game has inherant issues"? His response "sorry, you have to get it from your distributor". I have never ran into an issue like this, where the manufacturer won't step up in an obvious inferior product situation, and make things right. Well, fuckdiddily hoo to you, Namco! That piece of excrement went to the auction quicker than Roseanne doing laps at the Dunkin Donuts drive thru.
When some punk kid busts one of those $300 guns on that TC4, or that system 256 cage needs to be fixed, and you get the bill, tell me again how great Namco is
-Mike
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If you like dropping a mortgage payment everytime something needs to be fixed, then Namco's great. Evere had a machine gun ripped off of a Crisis Zone? I have. Know what one costs new? Around $800. I never did order any Barber Cuts, but I know many who did. One in particular told me about how he had to order more prize strings. Apparently, you could only order them in a certain quantity lot. Price? $200... FOR STRINGS. When he confronted Namco about the price, they said "they are special strings". SPECIAL STRINGS? Holy hell, are they made for fishing in the fountain of youth or something?
The best fallacy is the reunion board. 30 years later, and they can't even emulate the game THEY CREATED better than the guys in Taiwan kicking out multi boards. Ms Pac/Galaga boards are notorious for having that high score glitch, where the characters in the high score turn into foreign characters. Sure, Namco will fix it, for around $250. I even know of one vendor who is a KLOV regular, who bitched one time about spending over $400 on a Ms Pac/Galaga home use only board repair! What does it cost to MAKE this board, like $20? They released Pacman 25th, and that had MORE issues off the bat than Ms Pac/Galaga! It's freaking PACMAN, not the WOPR from Wargames damnit!
My last brew ha with Shamco was when I had bought 2 Rockin Bowl A Rama kits. They should have called this game Rockin Bowl of Shit. Hardly ever made money compared to my Silver Strikes. The game uses a thumb flash drive (another cheap out, put a hard drive on there with some capacity) to store critical game data. Well, I had one in particular that kept eating flash drives. One blew up, so I bought another at Betson. $175. About 6 months later, it blew up again! Another $175. Only 3 months pass, and this one bites the dust. So I call Namco tech support. They tell me to upgrade the RAM. I ask the guy "look this will be the fourth drive I'm throwing on this. Each time. I have to go to Betson and spend $175 to get this drive. I don't even think the game has made $175 since the last drive I replaced. Can Namco provide me with a drive here, since it is obvious that this game has inherant issues"? His response "sorry, you have to get it from your distributor". I have never ran into an issue like this, where the manufacturer won't step up in an obvious inferior product situation, and make things right. Well, fuckdiddily hoo to you, Namco! That piece of excrement went to the auction quicker than Roseanne doing laps at the Dunkin Donuts drive thru.
When some punk kid busts one of those $300 guns on that TC4, or that system 256 cage needs to be fixed, and you get the bill, tell me again how great Namco is
-Mike
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norton9478
Well-known member
Midway sound boards from the 90's tend to go bad.
The Neo-Geo Battery likes to explode all over the place.
The Neo-Geo Battery likes to explode all over the place.
RalphT3
Well-known member
I had the same exact lock-up problem, having a total of 7 pairs of lanes between 2 locations, Moving computers around and realizing it was also in fact the DVD drive. Qubica wanted something like $300 for each DVD drive. Found the drives on eBay for $20 ea. shipped. So I ordered 2 and now have a spare. I am currently looking into replacing the DVD drive with a compact flash drive. I just need to build a PC (with the appropriate programs) that will do that since the Windows PC doesn't like/recognize the DVD program, might not be a too hard of a project for me.
roothorick
Active member
If you like dropping a mortgage payment everytime something needs to be fixed, then Namco's great. Evere had a machine gun ripped off of a Crisis Zone? I have. Know what one costs new? Around $800. I never did order any Barber Cuts, but I know many who did. One in particular told me about how he had to order more prize strings. Apparently, you could only order them in a certain quantity lot. Price? $200... FOR STRINGS. When he confronted Namco about the price, they said "they are special strings". SPECIAL STRINGS? Holy hell, are they made for fishing in the fountain of youth or something?
The best fallacy is the reunion board. 30 years later, and they can't even emulate the game THEY CREATED better than the guys in Taiwan kicking out multi boards. Ms Pac/Galaga boards are notorious for having that high score glitch, where the characters in the high score turn into foreign characters. Sure, Namco will fix it, for around $250. I even know of one vendor who is a KLOV regular, who bitched one time about spending over $400 on a Ms Pac/Galaga home use only board repair! What does it cost to MAKE this board, like $20? They released Pacman 25th, and that had MORE issues off the bat than Ms Pac/Galaga! It's freaking PACMAN, not the WOPR from Wargames damnit!
My last brew ha with Shamco was when I had bought 2 Rockin Bowl A Rama kits. They should have called this game Rockin Bowl of Shit. Hardly ever made money compared to my Silver Strikes. The game uses a thumb flash drive (another cheap out, put a hard drive on there with some capacity) to store critical game data. Well, I had one in particular that kept eating flash drives. One blew up, so I bought another at Betson. $175. About 6 months later, it blew up again! Another $175. Only 3 months pass, and this one bites the dust. So I call Namco tech support. They tell me to upgrade the RAM. I ask the guy "look this will be the fourth drive I'm throwing on this. Each time. I have to go to Betson and spend $175 to get this drive. I don't even think the game has made $175 since the last drive I replaced. Can Namco provide me with a drive here, since it is obvious that this game has inherant issues"? His response "sorry, you have to get it from your distributor". I have never ran into an issue like this, where the manufacturer won't step up in an obvious inferior product situation, and make things right. Well, fuckdiddily hoo to you, Namco! That piece of excrement went to the auction quicker than Roseanne doing laps at the Dunkin Donuts drive thru.
When some punk kid busts one of those $300 guns on that TC4, or that system 256 cage needs to be fixed, and you get the bill, tell me again how great Namco is
-Mike
Yeah, that's the big downside with Namco, they charge highway robbery for parts. I figured since they barely ever break down, it works out. I didn't know about the reunion boards.
On the pen drive... you sure that's a pen drive, and not say, a security dongle? Pen drives are usually quite a bit sturdier than your average HDD, and you should be able to dump the image off it and use any old stick with the right capacity. It sounds like your machine had another issue that was killing the drives -- that is, the drives themselves weren't at fault. Voltages and whatnot.
roothorick
Active member
You can't straightforward replace a DVD drive with a CF card. The reason it works with hard drives is because a subset of the ATA standard is part of the CF standard, therefore with an adaptor the CF card can talk directly to an IDE bus as a HDD. To replace an optical drive though, you need some kind of ATAPI DVD-ROM emulator because the protocol is slightly different. At which point, you could just as easily use, say, an SD card or USB thumb drive.
At the time of the drive failure, we were still in warranty. I think the power filter excuse was them trying to say it may not be covered -- but neither me nor bossman would hear it.
SanTe
Well-known member
Worst. Power supplies. EVER.
Seriously. I know they're 30 years old but so are the power supplies in the shit ton of Donkey Kong cabs that are out there and I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard of Nintendo power supplies needing to be rebuilt. Rebuilding the original power supplies on the old Taitos isn't even an option, as they're still shit and still won't work right. I own five early '80s Taito games and not one of them has an original working power supply; they all have switchers now. Every one of them had a burned up +5V and some even had scorch marks on the power supply PCB.
I think this one is more urban legend than truth. The G08 in my Star Trek: SOS has been the most reliable thing in the entire cabinet, so far anyway. It's kinda loud though, even compared to a 6100.
Helloooooooooooo Taito. Again.
I'd say it's the worst invention in the coin-op industry, period. If I was an op and I found out I was paying thousands of dollars for a hot game that was intentionally designed to kill itself after a few years, I'd be seriously pissed.
OP
OP
Tornadoboy
Well-known member
Older Midway games like Boot Hill and Space Invaders have horrible bottoms because of not having levelers.
kcfreeloader
New member
I found this out when i took my Elevator Action to Grassroots Gaming Expo. I was walking by my line of games and i smelled something hot. I eventually tracked the smell down to EA. I let it continue to run until it finally gave up the ship. Turned it off for a while and when i powered back up the 5 volt was gone. Time for a switcher.
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"Looping and probably Sky Bumper - They like to thermo-cycle their TMS9995 processors to death until the legs literally fall off, and they're tough to find."
Don't forget that Looping also had a suicide battery. The code to fix this problem is available on the Internet (need to reburn one PROM).
Scott C.
Don't forget that Looping also had a suicide battery. The code to fix this problem is available on the Internet (need to reburn one PROM).
Scott C.
D_Harris
Well-known member
If you think it is an urban legend, then the next time you are at Funspot make sure you ask Gary to tell you the story about the smoking Star Trek back in the 80s.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
