G05-802 adapter? Needed to use in Lunar Lander wired for G05-801

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G05-802 adapter? Needed to use in Lunar Lander wired for G05-801

Does anyone make an adapter to be able to use a G05-802 monitor in a G05-801 Lunar Lander cabinet?
 
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The monitors require different voltages. I believe Bob Roberts made an adapter, and I don't know if folks have gotten away with using it, but IMO you should get the proper brick for an 802 (and AD or BZ b/w vector brick). However this will require you to get a new harness as well, as the bricks are pinned differently. So, you will need to repin your existing harness (and change the monitor connectors), or get the correct harness.

This is an area that isn't well documented IMO, and there are a lot of hacked and modded harnesses and bricks out there. I have helped multiple people with this issue in the past few months, and I strongly recommend you check what you currently have against the schematics, for what you think you have, as well as what you are converting to, and measure all voltages before plugging anything in.
 
5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Cossack sends out WTB thread. :)

Asteroids Deluxe (International) A035888 A035892 035887
Asteroids Deluxe (US) A036354 A036353 036352
Battlezone (US) A036354 A036353 036352
Battlezone (International) A035888 A035892 035887

http://www.elektronforge.com/transassy.htm
 
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The monitors require different voltages. I believe Bob Roberts made an adapter, and I don't know if folks have gotten away with using it, but IMO you should get the proper brick for an 802 (and AD or BZ b/w vector brick). However this will require you to get a new harness as well, as the bricks are pinned differently. So, you will need to repin your existing harness (and change the monitor connectors), or get the correct harness.

This is an area that isn't well documented IMO, and there are a lot of hacked and modded harnesses and bricks out there. I have helped multiple people with this issue in the past few months, and I strongly recommend you check what you currently have against the schematics, for what you think you have, as well as what you are converting to, and measure all voltages before plugging anything in.

I was going to buy Arcadeshops adapter, but they dont make them anymore..maybe because of the voltage issue. Its too bad, I have 801 monitor issues, and two good 802 monitors I would love to do a quick swap with. I think I will just send my 801 parts out for repair. Even though I did the complete(est) cap/repair kit available, I was still unable to get the picture up on it. The problem is beyond my capabilities now.

5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Cossack sends out WTB thread. :)

Asteroids Deluxe (International) A035888 A035892 035887
Asteroids Deluxe (US) A036354 A036353 036352
Battlezone (US) A036354 A036353 036352
Battlezone (International) A035888 A035892 035887

http://www.elektronforge.com/transassy.htm

Hey, you!!!!! Thats my line. Get your own! AND your your own beeswax Sir, I already have those spare bricks!!!!!
 
The 801 is a better monitor IMO, and worth repairing. They're functionally the same as 802's (same picture quality, etc), and they're both solid when properly rebuilt, but the 801s are just built better. It's actually interesting how many fewer of them I see for repair, compared to 802's, which I attribute to the difference in design.

The way they laid them out with three separate boards was very smart, as it separates all of the hot parts from the sensitive parts, putting the power on a separate board, and heatsinking the deflection bottlecaps much more effectively, on their own fat heatsink. 802s, v2000s, and 6100s all suffer from having active components (transistors and diodes) too close to hot power resistors, which ultimately causes them to fail faster.

The PCBs themselves are also thinner on the later monitors, as Atari (who assisted the monitor folks with the designs) had a tendency to overengineer their initial designs, and then trim back on later revisions, presumably to save money. But in a lot of cases the earlier stuff is more solid.

This is also true for 802 deflection boards, where the earlier ones have dedicated pins and plugs for each wire that connects directly to the board, with better strain relief, etc, which they ditched on the later rev boards, soldering the wires straight to the PCBs, with no strain relief (which frequently results in them breaking).
 
Well, you have convinced me then. 801 needs to be repaired. It looks fantastic, but diagnosing the issue beyond doing what I did is beyond my capabilities and time.
 
I've recently repaired a couple of G05-801 monitors and when testing them on my asteroids deluxe cocktail with a harness adapter I get ripples in the image. I have subbed everything with the same results. I'm thinking it is due to power brick voltage. I checked the large zener diodes on the rectifier board and they are fine. I'm guessing it is the brick
 
For some background, there are two versions of the 801 described in the 801 manual, a '25V version' (which operates on 56V, or a 28-0-28 transformer in the brick), and a '35V version', (which operates on 74V AC, from a 37-0-37 transformer). The 35V version is also labeled as a 'G05-802', but this is not the same as a true 802, as described in the 802 manual (and nobody seems to know why Atari did this, so it's just one of those mysteries). You need to look at the zener diodes on the monitor's power board to see which version you have. (Details under link below).

The 802 is listed in its manual as 30V (which is actually 60VAC, from a 30-0-30 transformer in the brick). So, depending on how accurate your brick is, AND which version of the 801 you have, you may or may not be able to get away with driving an 801 from an 802 brick (but chances are you'll be overdriving it, as I *think* most 801's are the 56V type, though I have limited data to support that, so take it with a grain of salt).

I don't have much experience with trying lots of combinations, as I just always make sure to use the right brick for the monitor, and measure brick to confirm. The bricks and harnesses are pinned differently, to prevent you from plugging the wrong stuff together, but some people have tried to bypass/repin/etc to get around that, so you should always be suspicious of what you have, check the pinout against the schematics, and measure the voltage with a DMM.

If you want a related thread, see here. But the info all comes from the respective manuals:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=329297
 
I'm no expert by any means, but I have been running the 802 with the 801 to 802 adapter from Bob Roberts in my Asteroids upright for several years now without a problem.

I tried to get by with the 801 which came with the machine when I first picked it up, but it failed on me several times even after more than a few rebuilds so I gave up on it. I wanted to keep the game as original as possible, but my experience with the 801 was just too frustrating.

Just FYI...don't know who might still sell these adapters now that Bob is probably done and if Arcade Shop also does not, but again, this has been my experience...

Jon
 
Using a G05-802/5 Monitor In A G05-801 Wired Cabinet
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/g05-802.html

g05-1.jpg


Using a G05-801 Monitor In A G05-802/5 Wired Cabinet
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/g05-801.html

g05-2.jpg
 
I'm no expert by any means, but I have been running the 802 with the 801 to 802 adapter from Bob Roberts in my Asteroids upright for several years now without a problem.


802 monitor with 801 brick is probably a safer bet than the opposite case (801 monitor with 802 brick), as for the 802 monitor, you're giving it a slightly lower supply voltage than expected (assuming 56V brick into 60V monitor), versus higher supply into lower monitor.

The manuals state a +/-15% tolerance on the supply voltages though, so on paper either should work (?) But with 35-year-old parts in them, I might take that with a grain of salt.

I do think this is an area where more research and documentation could be done.
 
I'm no expert by any means, but I have been running the 802 with the 801 to 802 adapter from Bob Roberts in my Asteroids upright for several years now without a problem.

I tried to get by with the 801 which came with the machine when I first picked it up, but it failed on me several times even after more than a few rebuilds so I gave up on it. I wanted to keep the game as original as possible, but my experience with the 801 was just too frustrating.

Just FYI...don't know who might still sell these adapters now that Bob is probably done and if Arcade Shop also does not, but again, this has been my experience...

Jon

Jon, thank for posting this. This is great news to know the adapter actually does work. I will still however, get my 801 fixed.

Using a G05-802/5 Monitor In A G05-801 Wired Cabinet
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/g05-802.html

g05-1.jpg


Using a G05-801 Monitor In A G05-802/5 Wired Cabinet
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/g05-801.html

g05-2.jpg

Yes man!!!!!!! I will now make my own adapter. This is spectacular info.

VC you planning a trip this way soon?

802 monitor with 801 brick is probably a safer bet than the opposite case (801 monitor with 802 brick), as for the 802 monitor, you're giving it a slightly lower supply voltage than expected (assuming 56V brick into 60V monitor), versus higher supply into lower monitor.

The manuals state a +/-15% tolerance on the supply voltages though, so on paper either should work (?) But with 35-year-old parts in them, I might take that with a grain of salt.

I do think this is an area where more research and documentation could be done.

Thankfully it is and 801 brick being used. I will make this adapter and test the 802. Nevertheless, I am getting the original 801 fixed so that I can have a rock solid original monitor to go with, or save as my backup.

You all rock man. Seriously. Thank you.
 
My Asteroids which now has the Multi-game kit installed was a game I built from parts. Before I even had a cabinet I had the game on a table working. The monitor was a G05-802 but the harness had the plugs for the 801 and I had the factory adapter. Not sure which power brick I had but it connected to the harness and the game worked. When I found a cabinet, it was an early Asteroids with the owl eye coin door and had the power brick and harness with the 801 plugs for the monitor. I gave the guy my harness and power brick and used the ones already in the cabinet and I used my G05-802 monitor with the adapter and have never had any issues.
Is this the one you are talking about or are you talking about an adapter to use a G05-801 in a newer game with the 802 harness?
Now I do have my buddy's Lunar Lander which has a G05-801 which I need to put back together one day so I did buy an adapter from Bob Roberts before he closed the doors so I could use my G05-802 or V2000 monitor for testing. It's still in the bag. It looks to be the same as the one I have on my Asteroids but I haven't checked the pinout to see if they are the same. Bob Roberts lists it as a V2000 monitor to G05-801 Cab. Bob also sells one to go the other way but I have never tried one so I don't know how good it works.
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/g05-1.jpg
g05-1.jpg

g05-2.jpg

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/g05-2.jpg

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I'm pretty sure I have an 802 to 801 adapter that I had also picked up from BR...I forget exactly why I got this when I did, but I'm sure I had a reason at the time :) .

It's probably sitting in my parts bin unused...I'd like to hang onto it for now, but if anyone needs better pictures, LMK.

Jon
 
If anyone needs to make one here is a drawing I did back in 2001. I used the factory adapter for reference and even made one back then which worked and I sold it on Ebay as back then if anyone was making them I didn't know about it.
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Absolutely freakin awesome information. SaminVA, your diagram can not possibly be more clear and perfect. Thank you kindly for sharing it with us.

I will build one tonight:)
 
Well guys, I built my adapter tonight, and tested both my spare 802 monitors in my Lunar Lander. Good news is my game works and the adapter I made works. The bad news is both my 802 monitors have issues as well, lol.

One of the monitors sparks at the top fuse on the deflection board upon start up, has neck glow, but no picture. The other 802 has picture, but it's collapsed on the top half, brightness adjustment works fine, but the contrast dial does nothing, and no matter how I spin the brightness, darker or brighter, the extra lines won't go away and neither will the center dot. Should I be making adjustments for the picture on the game board?

While I'm asking for help......I might as well ask what is causing my speakers to have such a loud hum/buzzing noise always??

Here are pics of the adapter I made and of the partially working 802:

IMG_6410.jpg


IMG_6411.jpg


IMG_6412.jpg
 
Turn down the brightness (after cleaning or replacing the POT) and resolder the headers on that one missing the top half of the screen. Did you do a capkit and change out the chassis transistors? (or at the least, test the transistors? one might be bad)
 
Loud hum is almost always a bad TDA2002 on the AR, especially if it hums without the game board plugged in. You can use a DMM set to AC mV to test the SPKR1 and 2 test points on the AR, with no game board plugged in, to see which TDA is generating the hum (though you probably should just replace both, if you're going to do one of them.)

For the sparking fuse, is the fuse the correct value? Sparking usually doesn't happen on the deflection board, but those two top fuses will just straight blow if one of the deflection amps on the board is bad, or the frame transistors are bad. My guess is you're getting a large inrush current, but the fuse is glowing, but not blowing(?) The fuses should be 2A fast (i.e., normal) blow, not slow-blow.

Test the 4 heatsinked transistors on the deflection board first (using a DMM), then all other small black transistors. You can check them in-circuit for most cases, though it is possible to have them go bad in ways that you can't see unless you remove them, but that's maybe 5% of the time. It helps if you have a known-working good board to compare to, but in your case maybe you can use the other bad board as at least a partial comparison.

Also test and/or just replace D608 and D708, as these frequently go bad, esp if they are the original glass ones. They are fairly close to the large hot power resistors, and take a lot of heat.

Also, test your frame transistors. (There is a technique for doing this quickly in my 6100 set-up guide, which you can use identically for b/w vector monitors.)

Also, do the mod where you bypass R100 and R101 with straight wires (see the FAQ), and replace Q500, 501, and 502, as these frequently cause issues, from being cooked next to R100.
 
FWIW, I've found that hum is either:

1. bad LM324 amp on game board; missing caps/resistors also perhaps around this IC
2. bad grounds or connections (edge etc)
3. bad TDA2002 amp(s) on ARI

Fixed many an asteroids by replacing #1. :cool:
 
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