Frequency response in original speakers compared to new 'woofers'?

joeycuda

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Frequency response in original speakers compared to new 'woofers'?

Here's a question - I want to replace a speaker in my Missile Command cabaret project. Building a new cabinet, almost done, the original was rotten and cone on the original speaker was 'ratty'.

A 5&1/4" OD should fit perfectly in the original sized rabbeted hole, although the original had a squared off basket and was stapled in.

PartsExpress has, and this is pretty typical for this price- Goldwood 5&1/4 shielded for $13. New full range are super expensive and kinda obsolete. They have some woofers closer to $5, but the rubber surround sticks out and would touch the speaker grille. The freq range for that $13 speaker is 80-4,000 Hz.

I know this isn't hi-fi, but I also know the original cheap speakers weren't capable of a high range of freq. Would the typical 80-4000 Hz range in a new 'woofer/mid-woofer' cover what the original 'full range' was capable of, and the range of the sound output from the game?

Thanks in advance..
 
Get shielded ones.

Bob has some.

I have a monitor that was hosed by the previous owner because he stuck unshielded ones too close to the monitor for too long.
 
Many aren't, but this one is actually shielded, so it would be fine.

290-377_s.jpg


"With an extremely small stray magnetic field, they can be used very close to CRT-based monitors."

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-377
 
my guess would be that the original speakers were 20-20,000 hz. Thats pretty typical of "full range" speakers anyway.
 
There is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NO WAY that ANY original arcade game speaker, even those big monsters used in modern DDR machines will reproduce 20 to 20,000 HZ. That is the full range of the human ear in a "best case" scenario. No individual single speaker component is capable of this full range. A VERY good woofer mated to a modern "state of the art" tweeter would be lucky to go from about 85 HZ up to 15,000 HZ before experiencing a "roll off" in the frequency response at each end. Such a speaker would cost a MINIMUM of $250 a piece, considering that you were shopping around and paying close attention to the specs.

The only speakers that CAN achieve that full range without having to run a relatively large separate powered subwoofer will typically have multiple drivers (an active sub with two passive radiators, a midrange driver and a 1" tweeter) in a large specially designed enclosure. Such speakers cost about $10,000 a pair and go up from there. Going down below 85Hz typically requires either a large self-powered driver in a dedicated enclosure or a bank of passive radiators in an enclosure that is sealed with a single powered driver.

To get back on topic, the original arcade speakers are total CRAP. The realistic response for your typical single "full range" driver is probably no lower than 200 HZ and no higher than 7-10,000 HZ. The speakers that i use to listen to music in my arcade go up to 35,000 HZ because they have specialized folded ribbon tweeters. The midrange drivers in them will actually go all the way up to 20,000 but they are crossed over at a relatively low RPM to let the tweeters handle the upper frequencies. My two subwoofers are separate powered units, and they probably don't realistically go down below about 30 HZ, which is still REALLY low. The speakers in my theater, however will go all the way down to 18 HZ (a 2,400 watt dual 15" corner loaded dedicated sub) and the horns in the main speakers probably go up to around 22,000. Of course, MOST PEOPLE can not hear the full "20 to 20,000 HZ" range that the human ear is rated at.

You might want to look into buying a quality self-powered "2.1" PC speaker setup. Those come with shielded speakers and a separate subwoofer that you can put in the bottom of the cabinet. Such an arrangement would sound WORLDS better than ANY replacement speakers that you might find that are a direct fit replacement for the original(s). I am running such an arrangement in several game setups in my arcade, and it is substantially better than just a simple speaker replacement (even if it IS a good quality speaker). The only thing you would need to address is the fact that most of these setups are designed for a low voltage input instead of "line level" inputs. Not a big deal, really...

Lee
 
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There is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NO WAY that ANY original arcade game speaker

Slow down a sec...

I've seen on many speakers from many games in the past "frequency response 20-20,000 hz." Thats not to say that they were capable of reproducing a 20hz signal or 20,000hz for that matter but thats what was printed on them. I know its a general statement but thats what was on the games. If you have an Atari System 1 or 2 game take a look at the speakers. Those were actually pretty nice speakers for their time.

And to the part of wiring in a 2.1 PC setup. Those require Pre-Amp levels in, not amplified speaker levels that you would get from game boards. Will it work, sure. Might it cause some problems down the road, who knows? Instead of the 4 or 8 ohm load that the boards amp is looking for you will be putting something in the 2k to 10k range on the amp and therefor not loading it correctly. Who knows what the long term ramifications are from that. And those speaker level to preamp level adapters are garbage.

To the OP.
I've used http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-305 in many of my Buck Hunter DLX's to replace the bad subwoofer. This speaker sounds great but its highest frequency response 4000 hz and thats not much of a high pass to speak of. I'd look for something that creeps into the mid teens as males have a lower level of high pass hearing then females do so you should be fine.

These days when I have a bad speaker in a video game I go buy cheap full range car speakers. They cover the frequencies nicely and can handle the dirty power from the video games.
 
Yes, i agree that finding some good quality aftermarket car speakers would be your best bet, assuming that they will physically fit and have a similar impedance. No matter what, they will be WORLDS better that what came in the game originally.

Slow down a sec...

I've seen on many speakers from many games in the past "frequency response 20-20,000 hz." Thats not to say that they were capable of reproducing a 20hz signal or 20,000hz for that matter but thats what was printed on them. I know its a general statement but thats what was on the games. If you have an Atari System 1 or 2 game take a look at the speakers. Those were actually pretty nice speakers for their time.

Not unlike the car amplifiers that you find at flea markets for $40 that have "4,000 WATTS" printed on them, no single driver full range speaker can come close to delivering that type of response at a consistent decibel output. Just for grins, I looked up the measured frequency response for one of my 15" Velodyne subwoofers, which has an enormous 3 square foot footprint, weighs over 80 pounds and has a 400 watt RMS amplifier. The lowest frequency that it will produce is 25 HZ. The likelihood that a 5" or so diameter paper full range driver being driven by (at most) 4 watts of an arcade PC board based power could reproduce a frequency in that range is about as likely as either of us winning the lottery this weekend...

Lee
 
Yeah, those flea market amps are junk. When I did car stereo installation we used to get a bunch of guys that would come from San Jose and Oakland with these Sherwood skateboard amps and have us hook them up to 4 15's in some nasty box. I had a pair of 8" JBL's in a small 7th order bandpass powered by a 100 watt Linear or Zappco Amp (which I still have) and it blew away the crap that these guys would come into the shop with. They would eventually buy an amp from our sales guys and let us have our way with the crap they came in with. We would either plug the crap amps outputs into the wall or just beat them to death with a hammer. :)
 
Thanks for all the info. It looks like the "midbass" drivers that are popular for DIY builds aren't a good substitute, even for the cheapy originals, since they don't reproduce a wide enough range.

I'm no audio pro, but I have completed half a dozen DIY builds, ranging from a scratch build sub to large bookshelf with fairly decent crossover builds.

I'll probably have to go the car speaker route, I just don't like the way they tend to look ridiculous. As far as a custom setup with a sub, I would like to do that for Out Run and Afterburner, if I ever get around to restoring those. I'd put a modern midrange/full where the original bezel speakers are, then a scratch build budget sub in the bottom of the cabinet for the rumble. It's on my bucket list.
 
Hit up the yard sales. I picked up a Harman Kardon 2.1 with those nice 2 small drivers per side (not the clear Apple style) and subwoofer for $5 that rocks my bathroom. Pic included.
I also have multiple Altec Lansing 2.1 systems that I pick up at yard sales. My latest pick up is one of the larger mid size AL 2.1 systems for $2 that I am going to put into my Atari/Sega systems in a Monaco GP cabinet.
 

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Arcade cabinet speakers are designed for open or infinite baffle. That is, look for a speaker that has a high Qts. Something way above .4 works well. I would shoot for .7+ to work well. This usually translates to a smaller magnet. With a gigantic enclosure, this is what works best.

Here are some perfect speakers for arcade cabinets:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-908

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-957

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-902

Notice the high QTS rating on these drivers. A higher Qts will also mean less output around its Fs. That high QTS is what counters the losses involved with putting a speaker in an unusually large and "open" arcade cabinet, versus a smaller sealed speaker cabinet. In this case, it is a bonus.

Going with something else will sound and perform different than what you expect a classic arcade cabinet to sound like. The original speaker wasn't producing a massive huge bandwidth, nor are the original sounds spanning that large a frequency response.

Don't look for an expensive or high power handling speaker. The speakers are getting such a small amount of power it doesn't make sense. The 'right' type of speaker will tend to be cheap.
 
Also, if you actually saw the frequency response of the original arcade speakers (even when brand new), you would be pretty surprised. My original Donkey Kong speaker measures like crap. It has peaks and bumps everywhere. But in the original cabinet doing its originally intended purpose, it works great!
 
The bleeps, buzzes and explosion noises from most classic games probably don't need a speaker with a large frequency response. If you get speakers that are "too good", it might actually change your perception of how the game sounds (versus what you EXPECT) by "too much". The good news is that cheap speakers are, well, "cheap". I say experiment and see what you like the best personally...
 
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