Free Sundance....

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Fascinating story. A good B&E excuse. :)

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How much you think the Sundance sold for.Is it the most expensive Arcade game in existence?


Don't know what sundance sold for, but there is no way it's close to the most. It was probably $2k-$3k. Greg paid off the owner and then paid jehuie to deliver it.

There are some rare protos that have sold for a ton of money(I have head of $20k+) But if you start adding in pinballs, stuff like Big Bang bar has sold for $50k.
 
I have told you, I don't have a problem with you. Ken does not have a problem with you. I just wish you would admit to the truth of stealing the sundance and that it was the wrong thing to do. You try to play it that it had to be done for the greater good.

Ok for those playing along, Bill said these things about me in another thread today here: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=380427

Rather than continuing to mess up that thread I thought it would be best to bring it back here. I wasn't going to talk more about this but since Bill keeps insisting on blathering about things he knows nothing about, well, here we are.

If you don't have a problem with me then why do you go around calling me a liar and thief all the time? Sounds like you have a problem with me.

Second, I have said over and over that it was not the right thing to take it. I never claimed that it was for some "greater good". I wanted the game. Plain and simple. Just like you did. You were one of the very first people to advocate going into the building and suggested sending your brother in to be sure it was still there.

You made no effort to get the game legally. I am sure you would have tried to fix it and sell it, but when the shit hit the fan, that was not an option for you. You do know the truth, but I am sure its not something you want out there.

Incorrect. You said you talked to the guys ex-wife. I bet I talked to her well before you did. Did she tell you about her husband being a child molester? Did she tell you that if you ever found him not to let her know unless he was dead? That's what she told me. Not that it matters in terms of what I did. Ok, how about this...did you know that I had called the police and reported to them that I had taken the game very early on? Did you know that they told me to hang onto it while I was looking for the owner? All of this was prior to when Greg started stirring things up. You seem to think he somehow "saved" me by some of your other comments. There is zero truth to that. There was nothing altruistic in his actions. He wanted the game. Just like I did. Just like you did.

If you just would admit you took sundance to make a profit, I could accept that. It would also clear up the why you did it.

Sure, I hoped to profit at some point. But I mostly did it because I happened to be in the area and it sounded fun though. And it was a lot of fun, that's for sure. I'd probably do it different next time though.

Also, who is the one who started this in this thread? Your trying to make a joke about it at my expense. I just put your bullshit into a context you did not like and then dug up all of it.

Wasn't me.
 
But, as you know, committing a federal crime is not a big deal to you. you don't talk much about the omega race and asteroids deluxe rescue.

As for the B&E at the presidio, I am going by what you posted and then deleted. So if the facts are wrong, you can clarify them.

I really don't plan to say much more about the Sundance situation. But you know exactly about it as much as you know about me getting these two games. Please Bill, tell me everything you know about these acquisitions in which you are accusing me of committing a federal crime. I'd love to hear about this since it's news to me. And where did I delete something? I'm confused.
 
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I will copy here what I posted in the other thread and then correct you..

Well that statement is very disingenuous of you to say. You have taken every opportunity to slam me for a long time now. I haven't said a word about it all this time. You've called me a liar and a thief. You have said I'm incompetent and untrustworthy and other things that are not very nice. And yet you will come to my house and be all smiles. People who were not around back when this was all happening may take you at your word. It's not right. I'm going to pick this up in the "new" Sundance thread which I have avoided participating in up to now. I don't think I'll belabor it too long.

If anyone cares (doubtful at this point) I will post in that thread. Everyone here can go back to talking about the dump find. Here's the link: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=377651


As I said, I did not/do not have a problem with you. I can forgive, just don't expect me to forget. Especially when someone refuses to admit they were wrong and try to pass it off that they were in the right. But you will not even admit to that. And as if just to prove it, you go and take omega race and asteroids deluxe. Now would I call you a thief, based on sundance, I would say yes. From what you briefly posted(and quickly deleted) about omega race and asteroids deluxe, I would say you stole those games too. I don't think you tracked down the legal owners of those games.

I am not the one who called you incompetent, I guess you can say that was seamus and van. But they did not say those exact words. they told you not to try to run sundance. you even posted here you did not know about cinematronics and you proceeded to try to fix it. You really mess it up. You can ask them. That's what they told me when I delivered some games to them.

This time, you started it. In the past its been you or others who bring up the sundance as a joke and I correct them. But the facts are what you did to get the sundace was illegal. You want to call it a rescue, but in the eyes of the law, you were screwed if they pressed charges. I would think that where you work might have helped you to avoid trouble, but that would be an assumption. You can add that if you like to explain how you got out of trouble. All I know is that if you take something, even if you give it back, there are consequences to those actions.

I did not want to go to your house to get the free lethal enforcers(that you got for free and could not fix). The only reason I did was to get parts to help out a fellow collector who needed a monitor chassis for his LE. I forget why I was driving back through your area. Either to deliver, fix or pickup a game. It was not just to go get LE. I should have sent joe to go get the part, but he has 5 (maybe more) little kids and that was not really possible. If you want joes email you, can talk to him about it. I was just trying to help a collector out. I did use the chassis to fix his game, so on his behalf, I will thank you.

But if I remember correctly, I did help you out first with a tempest coin door and something else. I want to say ARII or xy transformer. I pulled it off a spare tempest cab to help you out. Yes I did sell you those parts, but it was still a major effort to get them when I was dealing with usual cax stuff.

If you want to start a new thread, feel free to do so. If you stick to the facts and tell the truth, I will not have a problem with that. Just start with how you broke into the building to get it and go from there. Don't use the words rescue as the game was safe until you stole it. If you had waited a week, either greg or ken would have legally gotten it long before the building would have been crushed.
 
I wish I will continue to call you a thief until you admit you stole those 3 games. Is that fair? You keep dancing around it. just say you stole the games. we can close that part of it. After you admit to it, I can let it go if you don't bring it up.

I never was for going into the building to get it. I sent my brother to see if it was still there so we could get it legally. my brother asked(his friend wanted to get it), ken said no way. It was a no way from me too.

Yes, I did know a bit about the guy. I was told there is even more to it(about the daughter), but I don't even want to bring that part up. Its not relevant. We thought dangling money in front of her might help get to him. I did not say I contacted her. I forget if my brother did or ken called her. I did not. When I used the form of we, it was in reference to what our side was doing to try to get it legally. We also did contact his lawyer friend and former business partner. Ken mailed him a check as a deposit for the game.

greg was just better at getting to the owner. Plus after you stole it, ken did not want to touch it with a 10 foot pole. He was out unless it could be gotten legally. If you don't know ken, then you don't know how much illegal stuff bugs him. IP and copyright are a big deal for him.

You did not contact the police until after the shit started to hit the fan. Are you now trying to say you did it before you broke in? It was a matter of time before it got back to you based on all the noise that was generated by trying to get it. So it was smart o get out in front of it and tell your story. Again, how did you not get into trouble for committing a crime with out lying to the police? If not lying to the police the police gave you a break based on where you work. I am sure if anyone else did what you did, they would have been screwed.

I have said this several times, I NEVER WANTED THE GAME! I think the game sucks. The only game worse than it is barrier. There was a time maybe 20 years ago I would have wanted it, but then I decided why am I collecting all these cinematronics/vectorbeam games I never played growning up. So I sold warrior, barrier, ripoff cocktail, star hawk, cosmic chasm, boxing bugs, and tailgunner 2.

You keep saying I wanted it. My only interest was to help ken get it. It is/was kens grail game. I told him about it and wanted to get it. my brother lived close. its a small area he knew the players.

I guess you forgot this is what started it..

So it's ok to pay someone else to steal it for you as long as you don't steal it yourself. Got it. It's hard for me to keep all these rules straight. Thanks for the clarification.

as for omega race and asteroids deluxe, you posted in the sundance thread that you broke in and took them. you even posted pics. Then a few hours later they were gone from the thread. So now your saying it was a joke or a lie. then why did you delete it? All I know is you posted pics of a building where you claimed to take games from a base at the presideo. Is that true or not?



Ok for those playing along, Bill said these things about me in another thread today here: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=380427

Rather than continuing to mess up that thread I thought it would be best to bring it back here. I wasn't going to talk more about this but since Bill keeps insisting on blathering about things he knows nothing about, well, here we are.

If you don't have a problem with me then why do you go around calling me a liar and thief all the time? Sounds like you have a problem with me.

Second, I have said over and over that it was not the right thing to take it. I never claimed that it was for some "greater good". I wanted the game. Plain and simple. Just like you did. You were one of the very first people to advocate going into the building and suggested sending your brother in to be sure it was still there.



Incorrect. You said you talked to the guys ex-wife. I bet I talked to her well before you did. Did she tell you about her husband being a child molester? Did she tell you that if you ever found him not to let her know unless he was dead? That's what she told me. Not that it matters in terms of what I did. Ok, how about this...did you know that I had called the police and reported to them that I had taken the game very early on? Did you know that they told me to hang onto it while I was looking for the owner? All of this was prior to when Greg started stirring things up. You seem to think he somehow "saved" me by some of your other comments. There is zero truth to that. There was nothing altruistic in his actions. He wanted the game. Just like I did. Just like you did.



Sure, I hoped to profit at some point. But I mostly did it because I happened to be in the area and it sounded fun though. And it was a lot of fun, that's for sure. I'd probably do it different next time though.



Wasn't me.
 
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Please post where I ever said I did it to "rescue" the game. You keep repeating that I'm saying that.

And please give me a link to anything related to Asteroids Deluxe or Omega Race where it looks like I deleted something. Your "facts" on these 2 games should help give people an idea of the quality of your "facts" regarding what happened with Sundance.
 
And to save you from embarrassing yourself, check the dates on the threads. The Sundance thread that you claim I deleted a post about these games was LOCKED about a year prior to anyone even discovering that Omega Race game in the Presidio. And close to a year prior to my finding the AD at a thrift store and posting that I got a great deal on it.
 
And to save you from embarrassing yourself, check the dates on the threads. The Sundance thread that you claim I deleted a post about these games was LOCKED about a year prior to anyone even discovering that Omega Race game in the Presidio. And close to a year prior to my finding the AD at a thrift store and posting that I got a great deal on it.

I don't have admin access to see what was deleted by you or by an admin. So I can't say what you posted and deleted.

Just answer some very simple questions.

did you take(since you don't like to use the word steal) games from some other place that did not belong to you? (if someone else took them and gave them to you that still counts as stealing them)

Was taking sundance stealing?
 
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Who the fuck are you? The Pope? His minister? His father? He doesn't owe you a damn thing, let alone an "admission". Stop being a dick.

Jesus man... really?
 
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Who the fuck are you? The Pope? Stop being a cock.

Jesus man... really?

All these years this has been popping up because people think its funny and a joke that's usually at my expense. I don't care that he stole it. I always known it was out of greed. I can understand that. He has admitted to that part of it. That is easy to forgive its human nature.

What bugs me is that he keeps trying to say he was in the right and that I was greedy and wanted it for myself. That's a 100% lie. I never wanted the game. My only motivation was to help a friend. This time he started it with a snide remark in a thread. Now I want to finish it for good.

I just what to see if john would fully admit to what he did. He just has not owned up to the central point, that it was stealing. Its a small thing, but its an important point to me. then I can let it go.

As for you input, its noted. Bless you. I forgive you.
 
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I don't have admin access to see what was deleted by you or by an admin. So I can't say what you posted and deleted.

Just answer some very simple questions.

did you take(since you don't like to use the word steal) games from some other place that did not belong to you? (if someone else took them and gave them to you that still counts as stealing them)

Was taking sundance stealing?

I will gladly answer yours. Then answer mine.

For the first question, no I did not.

For the second question, there is no clear answer. To you and many others it was obviously stealing. But to me and many others it was not since there was never any intent to defraud the guy of property or money. I immediately notified him of what I had done and offered to return it or compensate him. You call it stealing. I don't. But was it a poor choice? It most certainly was.

Ok, now your turn.

How could I have posted (and then sneakily deleted the post) that I stole something from the presidio in a thread that was locked in 2010 when the game was not discovered in the Presidio until 2011?
 
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I will gladly answer yours. Then answer mine.

For the first question, no I did not.

For the second question, there is no clear answer. To you and many others it was obviously stealing. But to me and many others it was not since there was never any intent to defraud the guy of property or money. I immediately notified him of what I had done and offered to return it or compensate him. You call it stealing. I don't. But was it a poor choice? It most certainly was.

Ok, now your turn.

How could I have posted (and then sneakily deleted the post) that I stole something from the presidio in a thread that was locked in 2010 when the game was not discovered in the Presidio until 2011?

yes, there is a clear answer! You broke in, you took the item without permission. that by definition is theft.

You claim your intent was to not defraud the guy. But that is after the fact. That's the stance you take now, but you have already said you did it out of a thrill/greed. That says it was theft.

The contacting after the fact is remorse. It shows you knew the consequences actions. That and you knew people were trying to reach him and it would eventually lead back to you. getting out in front of a crime can help, but not that much. I think there was more to it that helped you out of this. I am sure you will not elaborate on that, so I will let that one go.

As for the omega race (I could have been wrong on asteroids deluxe, but I thought the presideo was 2 games and AD stuck in my mind), the relevant fact is that you did it again. You left off the details for a reason.

I can speculate on a lot of things. Can I prove it, no. I don't have access. The person/persons who do, might not have wanted it public and could easily delete something without a trace. I am going on what I saw and then that it was gone. very hard to prove. So your right, I can't prove it. Based on the dates, it could not be in the sundance thread, but that's semantics getting around the fact that you took another game after the sundance.

so if you want to agree you did steal 2 games, I am happy with that.
 
Who the fuck are you? The Pope? His minister? His father? He doesn't owe you a damn thing, let alone an "admission". Stop being a dick.

Jesus man... really?

Seriously... sounds like he has owned up to what he did, so why continue?? I'm sure you're no saint...

But then again, continue... Rereading all this is passing the time at work!!!

Edit... Not aimed at you Frizz... Just liked what you said...
 
Seriously... sounds like he has owned up to what he did, so why continue?? I'm sure you're no saint...

But then again, continue... Rereading all this is passing the time at work!!!

Edit... Not aimed at you Frizz... Just liked what you said...

yes, he pretty much finally did. I am good with it. now when sundance is referenced, you can see this page and decide without a load of bullshit.

I am not a saint. Never claimed to be. But then I am not an a-hole either. When that op asked me to snake the deal from under you, I did not mess your deal up, and I vouched for you guys. I could have easily been an a-hole to you guys then, and you would never had known it. But I told you what was going on. I gained nothing by telling you. We both know it was profitable. But there is more to life than money.
 
yes, he pretty much finally did. I am good with it. now when sundance is referenced, you can see this page and decide without a load of bullshit.

I am not a saint. Never claimed to be. But then I am not an a-hole either. When that op asked me to snake the deal from under you, I did not mess your deal up, and I vouched for you guys. I could have easily been an a-hole to you guys then, and you would never had known it. But I told you what was going on. I gained nothing by telling you. We both know it was profitable. But there is more to life than money.

The comment I made had nothing to do with that deal... That op was shady and when he wanted us to come back and buy more we turned him down because of that. Plenty more shit out there to hunt out and buy... All I meant is we all make mistakes and wish we had done things different. On this one you two are going to have to agree to disagree. What happened has happened, and nothing will change.
 
Bill, you think I spoke up after the fact out of remorse. You are wrong. Just like you are wrong about the Asteroids Deluxe. Just like you are wrong about the Omega Race. Ask Tombo or any other mod here to look at any of my threads and find something that I deleted. There is nothing suspicious going on. There never was. You are wrong about it. You now admit that it could not have been in the Sundance thread. Well what thread could it possibly have been in then? Let's get to the bottom of that accusation. It's important. Because if you can't give even a shred of truth on that item then why should anyone believe you on the Sundance one? It's all just crap that you made up.
 
All these years this has been popping up because people think its funny and a joke that's usually at my expense. I don't care that he stole it. I always known it was out of greed. I can understand that. He has admitted to that part of it. That is easy to forgive its human nature.

What bugs me is that he keeps trying to say he was in the right and that I was greedy and wanted it for myself. That's a 100% lie. I never wanted the game. My only motivation was to help a friend. This time he started it with a snide remark in a thread. Now I want to finish it for good.

I just what to see if john would fully admit to what he did. He just has not owned up to the central point, that it was stealing. Its a small thing, but its an important point to me. then I can let it go.

As for you input, its noted. Bless you. I forgive you.

At your expense? Thou dost think too highly of thine self...

Truly.

Just come down off your high-horse... I guarantee the amount of shit that people (aside from you evidently) give when it comes to Mr. Bill and the Sundance saga might fill a thimble.
 
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