First video of Avatar ...

[pudluther]

or.....

versus, ya know, pretty much anything. i'd say signage has changed as significantly as the pics posted above.



seriously though, i think both sides of the argument make good points. if there were another pinball company (or companies) out there competing with stern, i'd be all over the side of the argument that says "innovate, innovate, innovate" with regards to the backglass/dmd issue. but as it stands, all we've got is stern....and who knows for how long. i don't see a new LCD scoreboard saving pinball, so i gotta go with the money saving argument for the time being.

 

[shilmover]

Avatar is being brought back to the movie theatres end of this month. The reason it was pulled from the theatres is because they used up their allotment of 3D screen time, not because of sales being down.

http://www.i4u.com/article36173.html

 

[Deadly]

I've said this a million times (now a million and one) but the success of a pin (customers side of it) is:
1.) FIRST thing a pin needs is curb appeal. You have a crappy theme and you'll never get the player over to the machine for the first coin drop.
2.) Next is the PF has to have it's own curb appeal. Would you drop a coin into a machine with no artwork and a couple bumpers? Same principal.
3.) Now you've succeeded getting that first coin drop. The rest now depends on the action of the machine. This category lumps DMD animation, toys, shots and audio samples/music!

Arguably a sound mixture for success. What I don;t agree with stern on is the "hand you your ass in 30 seconds or less" thinking. It's the same reason how many of us old timers remember going into the arcade and seeing Dragons Lair and only sinking a couple bucks into it never to play again. The game was too hard for us whipper snappers and (frankly speaking) frustration never makes money. I didn't like having my rear end handed to me then and I don't like it now. The OPS have to make money and allowing 15 minute games isn;t the right thing either. But there has to be a compromise to be made. I personally don;t believe they've figured that end of it out yet.

Anyway I've come to really like the movie Avatar and would love the opportunity to play it.

 

[supadave1]

FIRST thing a pin needs is curb appeal. You have a crappy theme and you'll never get the player over to the machine for the first coin drop...

You know what I believe is crappy themes.. MOVIE PINS!.. I see a movie based pin and I just shrug and say to myself "Oh look another movie based pin" That's where I think they loose creativity. They just try to profit off of something that has already succeeded and are affraid to try something on their own. Don't get me wrong there are some that are good but for every good one there are 5 bad ones. I always look for that pin that is different.. I played one today that was fantastic! "Cactus Canyon" That was a fun creative pinball machine. I like those obscure ones.. Here are some to name a few.. Cyclone, F14 Tomcat, Medieval Madness, Whirlwind, Fish Tales, Monster Bash, Funhouse, and the list goes on.. These aren't exactly obscure by any means but they are self themed for the most part. Whats the newest pin that is not based on a movie?? Big Buck Hunter maybe? And that is based on an already successful Video Game. That's just my opinion which doesn't matter one bit.

Maybe it's just me but I also have no interest in playing Avatar. I wasn't that big on the movie. I kinda felt like i was watching a campaign film on saving the rainforest and love thy mother earth environmental protection film. I just couldn't get past the political jazz.

 

[gweempose]

You know what I believe is crappy themes.. MOVIE PINS! ... I always look for that pin that is different ... Cyclone, F14 Tomcat, Medieval Madness, Whirlwind, Fish Tales, Monster Bash, Funhouse ...

Technically, Monster Bash is a movie pin. The entire game is based around characters from classic horror films.

 

[supadave1]

Technically, Monster Bash is a movie pin. The entire game is based around characters from classic horror films.

I knew someone would throw that up.. hehe.. true they are, but it's not not so heavily themed on one movie and I'd call it more character themed then movie themed...

 

[SealClubber]

A game has to look good for people to want to play it, then and now. Good examples are JM and the Shadow. They sell for cheap because the artwork isn't great. They are also examples of why you need a good license as their movies sucked and casuals aren't interested in them (good for us). We on this forum are not your casual players and thus are more interested in gameplay and rulesets, good artwork is a bonus.
Most of today's kids and young adults only care about licenses, brands and flash. They will buy anything that Rapper X wears or Athlete Y uses just because he does, whether it works well or not. There is a Star Wars Ep1 here in town. I think the game sucks but it is almost always busy with the kids just because it is starwars. They will also buy the newest gadget even if it barely works better than their old one.
I could care less if the game has an LCD or DMD but I think a game with an LCD will draw kids in.

 

[stevenp61]

I think if you're writing off their current games, it's closedminded and quite frankly, your loss. There's a difference between simple and boring (Stern's Indiana Jones) & simple and compelling and fun (Iron Man). I love deep games like TSPP and LOTR...but not every game needs to be like that....and, it blows for operators. Newbies find it too confusing and don't come back....and pros can play on 75 cents for 30 minutes.... Iron Man is the perfect happy medium. It's simple for newbies to figure out and exciting to play....but there's a lot of great strategy, fast paced challenge, and really hard to reach "wizard" type stuff for pros. I consider myself and avid pinhead....and I was very skeptical of Iron Man and the whole "cheap/simple" thing ....but man....Iron Man is the ONLY game I like to play these days. It's so fun and addicting. Now - I have no idea if it was a fluke, or if Avatar will be just as fun. I'm looking forward to playing it and judging it for myself.

Do you own an IM?

 

[RareHero]

Do you own an IM?

Yup! Love it...it's pretty much the only game I've been playing for the past few months.

 

[Fattrain]

You know what I believe is crappy themes.. MOVIE PINS!.. I see a movie based pin and I just shrug and say to myself "Oh look another movie based pin" That's where I think they loose creativity. They just try to profit off of something that has already succeeded and are affraid to try something on their own.

IMHO I believe Stern does this because they CANNOT afford a "Flop" pin. One bad pin and they go down the tubes for sure! So they get themes that are already successful to piggyback off of... I understand the thinking....

If you think of how many "original titles" there are not based on other things, then compare how many Good/Great titles to how many flops!

Regardless of theme there will always be flops so if an "Already Successful" theme gets players to the machine to spend money, ops will keep buying them, hence Stern will stay in business.

 

[Deadly]

I've made my stance perfectly clear which is I want original themed pins again. But ya know what? Won't happen. Why? Well it didn;t work. How many pin manufacturers are left. There's a reason for it. Stern has the right idea and it doesn;t fit some of our bills ... but they don;t care about us. *Getting ready for the blow back on this remark* but Stern will lose pin heads because they aren;t aiming their games at us anymore. They need new blood and with new ideas generates new blood. Sorry guys but that is a reality. Complain allllllll ya want but it doesn;t matter. Sterns focus is on new blood and making their machines more dependable and easier to work on for the sake of the OPS.

I do take peoples opinions lightly because we are all kids ... remember Christmas time you couldn;t freaking wait to open that one gift because you just knew what it was going to be and it was everything your little heart desired! But eventually you grew bored of it or got the latest and greatest toy making the old toy old news. Pinball is no different. People can claim all they want how great (insert title here) is, but with all things the newness wears off.

 

[pudluther]

guess i'm in the minority....i like movie based pins.

 

[gweempose]

Stern will lose pin heads because they aren't aiming their games at us anymore ... Sterns focus is on new blood and making their machines more dependable and easier to work on for the sake of the OPS.

This may very well be true, but I have to question the wisdom of such a strategy. I certainly don't want to offend any ops, but pinball routes are quickly becoming an endangered species. Pinball just isn't in the public consciousness the way it used to be, and even the best pin in the world isn't going to change that. If Stern is going to survive, it's not by designing machines that do well on route, but by catering to the home market. And who makes up a majority of that market? Pinheads. If Stern starts alienating the hardcore players, they risk losing the very part of the market that they need to survive.

 

[prOk]

This may very well be true, but I have to question the wisdom of such a strategy. I certainly don't want to offend any ops, but pinball routes are quickly becoming an endangered species. Pinball just isn't in the public consciousness the way it used to be, and even the best pin in the world isn't going to change that. If Stern is going to survive, it's not by designing machines that do well on route, but by catering to the home market. And who makes up a majority of that market? Pinheads. If Stern starts alienating the hardcore players, they risk losing the very part of the market that they need to survive.

I think in all reality you'd find that 'pinheads' are actually a mere fraction of the true market. They are the pickiest and most vocal yes, but a majority no. Stern is a business that relies on the public to play their games. Not collectors, not pinheads. the public. They build what the general public will play in a bar, rest stop, hotel etc not what a self proclaimed enthusiast/pinhead/collector wants. That's where people make a big mistake in their thinking.

The market is what it is, there will be hits with collectors and there will be misses. The only constant is the typical pin patron won't care and simply wants to be entertained and the collector will bitch to high heaven no matter what it is

 

[RareHero]

guess i'm in the minority....i like movie based pins.

Two words.

ADDAMS FAMILY

Based on a movie. Best selling game ever. End of discussion.

 

[supadave1]

Two words.

ADDAMS FAMILY

Based on a movie. Best selling game ever. End of discussion.

Best selling game yes, Titanic is also the second highest grossing movie of all time and I think most would agree that it isn't that good.. Sit a Medieval Madness next to an Adams Family and see which one gets played more. Addams Family is good, I never said that all movie games suck.. I just think that there are too many.

 

[toolguy]

I like! Very cool! Glad Stern is still turning them out.

That said, the jet bumpers are POS, weak excuses for bumpers. I noticed this on Iron Man as well, cheap!

I suppose this is where pin manf is headed and to keep costs down, so I'll just have to get used to it.

 

[gweempose]

Stern is a business that relies on the public to play their games. Not collectors, not pinheads. The public. They build what the general public will play in a bar, rest stop, hotel etc not what a self proclaimed enthusiast/pinhead/collector wants ...

I agree that this has traditionally been true. Times are changing though, and it would be very shortsighted of Stern not to see the value in more aggressively pursuing the home market. Pins on location are not the future, they are the past. Heck, I live in the middle of a booming metropolis and I'd be hard pressed to find ten routed pins within a 15-mile radius of my home.

 

[gibbous]

I don't think the pinhead/collector's market is big enough to support the entire industry, even if it is just one company.

The general, mass home market seems to be interested in stuff like:

 

[toolguy]

I think in all reality you'd find that 'pinheads' are actually a mere fraction of the true market. They are the pickiest and most vocal yes, but a majority no. Stern is a business that relies on the public to play their games. Not collectors, not pinheads. the public. They build what the general public will play in a bar, rest stop, hotel etc not what a self proclaimed enthusiast/pinhead/collector wants. That's where people make a big mistake in their thinking.

Disagree...

"Stern Pinball's ratio of "home sales" to commercial sales has risen from practically zero to an estimated 35% - 60% of their total sales in just the last 3 years, which is an encouraging new market for them to sell into in the coming years as operator and commercial account orders continue to dwindle."

It is rare now to see machines on location in bars and hotels. Truck stops yes, but many hotels pulled their arcades out. If anything now you see redemption machines in hotels. Home gamerooms are becoming more and more common now...