First video of Avatar ...

Hmmm....I dunno if I would've supported the idea of the temporary backglass art going out. It's really cheesy and makes the game look 20 yrs old.

I hope they do something more than just a 3d effect.

Why aren't we seeing LCD displays replace the static art in the head of pinball machines, or at a minimum the DMD? DMD is hard-core 80's style. It's time to update IMHO.
 
Why aren't we seeing LCD displays replace the static art in the head of pinball machines, or at a minimum the DMD? DMD is hard-core 80's style. It's time to update IMHO.

Are you playing a video game or pinball? You're usually looking at the playfield, not the DMD...the DMD is basically the scoreboard, it doesn't need to be fancy or in color to enjoy pinball. Plus, it would just add costs that Stern just can't afford right now.
 
Why aren't we seeing LCD displays replace the static art in the head of pinball machines, or at a minimum the DMD? DMD is hard-core 80's style. It's time to update IMHO.
I agree 100%. LCD screens are dirt cheap these days. It's about time Stern entered the 21st century.
 
I agree 100%. LCD screens are dirt cheap these days. It's about time Stern entered the 21st century.

While it would look cool....what does it REALLY add to pinball? Unless it's projected onto the playfield like P2K - it's really just a scoreboard.

You have to take into account that they have ONE GUY who does DMD art and animation. While on one hand using movie footage would be super easy and look better on an LCD - they'd still need lots of custom stuff like score and transition animation, custom art. There's a lot more to it than just switching display types.
 
I agree 100%. LCD screens are dirt cheap these days. It's about time Stern entered the 21st century.

From the looks of the machine, it looks like Stern is on auto-pilot, just cranking out a quick title without anything really innovative. Then again, unless there's an Avatar sequel coming out soon, IMO they've missed the window with this game.
 
unless there's an Avatar sequel coming out soon, IMO they've missed the window with this game.
There is a sequel coming up.
Per a discussion on RGP this morning it's become painfully clear that Stern has no plans of producing anything deep ruled or overly complex in the toy section and/or software end of pins anymore. For the avid pinhead the future pins won't be of much interest to us I'm afraid.
 
From the looks of the machine, it looks like Stern is on auto-pilot, just cranking out a quick title without anything really innovative. Then again, unless there's an Avatar sequel coming out soon, IMO they've missed the window with this game.

That's like saying Data East/Sega missed a window when they released their Star Wars pins in the 90's...some themes transcend "release date"

This is the right window for Avatar. They didn't know Avatar would be a hit or not. It would have been risky to get this game to market before the movie. Now - they KNOW it's a runaway hit, loved worldwide by a wide demographic. The theme has legs. The movie's being re-released next month w/ additional footage...there's going to be a big push of the film on 3D Blu-Ray....and a sequel is in the works. Releasing the game before anyone KNEW wtf Avatar was would have been the wrong thing to do. Now that it has a following, it makes sense.

Another benefit of releasing the game now is that they have full access to all the audio/video/story of the movie to incorporate into the game. Stern's IJ barely has ANYTHING from Crystal Skull (although that might be a plus...hehe) ...Batman (even though I like it) would benefit greatly from having more Dark Knight audio and DMD animation. Iron Man sorta lucked out...everything cool was in the trailer, and that's what Stern had to work with. Anyway - Stern hasn't had this much access to the material since LOTR...I'm really interested to see how the sound and DMD stuff turns out.

When it comes to movie themes, Stern usually only does franchises...titles that are popular regardless of the (possibly) shitty sequel. Spider-Man 3, Iron Man 2, and Indiana Jones 4 sucked balls....but that doesn't taint the games, as they have cool stuff from all the movies, and they're as timeless as you're going to get w/ movie themes....the characters have been around forever and transcend the "window" of the film's release. Spider-man 3 came out in '07...yet they're re-running the game NOW due to popular demand. Good game + "timeless" theme = window be damned.
 
There is a sequel coming up.
Per a discussion on RGP this morning it's become painfully clear that Stern has no plans of producing anything deep ruled or overly complex in the toy section and/or software end of pins anymore. For the avid pinhead the future pins won't be of much interest to us I'm afraid.

I think if you're writing off their current games, it's closedminded and quite frankly, your loss. There's a difference between simple and boring (Stern's Indiana Jones) & simple and compelling and fun (Iron Man). I love deep games like TSPP and LOTR...but not every game needs to be like that....and, it blows for operators. Newbies find it too confusing and don't come back....and pros can play on 75 cents for 30 minutes.... Iron Man is the perfect happy medium. It's simple for newbies to figure out and exciting to play....but there's a lot of great strategy, fast paced challenge, and really hard to reach "wizard" type stuff for pros. I consider myself and avid pinhead....and I was very skeptical of Iron Man and the whole "cheap/simple" thing ....but man....Iron Man is the ONLY game I like to play these days. It's so fun and addicting. Now - I have no idea if it was a fluke, or if Avatar will be just as fun. I'm looking forward to playing it and judging it for myself.
 
I never said I was writing anything off. Re-read my posts.
I have not played IM, BBH and needless to say Avatar either. Simply stating that (because of the RGP thread) the days of deep rule set/complex games have more or less become part of the past. Nothing more - nothing less.

And for the record i love easier games - I love my Funhouse and my WCS94.
I am far from being a pin "snob."
 
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That's like saying Data East/Sega missed a window when they released their Star Wars pins in the 90's...some themes transcend "release date"

This is the right window for Avatar. They didn't know Avatar would be a hit or not. It would have been risky to get this game to market before the movie. Now - they KNOW it's a runaway hit, loved worldwide by a wide demographic. The theme has legs. The movie's being re-released next month w/ additional footage...there's going to be a big push of the film on 3D Blu-Ray....and a sequel is in the works. Releasing the game before anyone KNEW wtf Avatar was would have been the wrong thing to do. Now that it has a following, it makes sense.

Another benefit of releasing the game now is that they have full access to all the audio/video/story of the movie to incorporate into the game. Stern's IJ barely has ANYTHING from Crystal Skull (although that might be a plus...hehe) ...Batman (even though I like it) would benefit greatly from having more Dark Knight audio and DMD animation. Iron Man sorta lucked out...everything cool was in the trailer, and that's what Stern had to work with. Anyway - Stern hasn't had this much access to the material since LOTR...I'm really interested to see how the sound and DMD stuff turns out.

When it comes to movie themes, Stern usually only does franchises...titles that are popular regardless of the (possibly) shitty sequel. Spider-Man 3, Iron Man 2, and Indiana Jones 4 sucked balls....but that doesn't taint the games, as they have cool stuff from all the movies, and they're as timeless as you're going to get w/ movie themes....the characters have been around forever and transcend the "window" of the film's release. Spider-man 3 came out in '07...yet they're re-running the game NOW due to popular demand. Good game + "timeless" theme = window be damned.




agreed. good post.
 
While it would look cool....what does it REALLY add to pinball? Unless it's projected onto the playfield like P2K - it's really just a scoreboard.

You have to take into account that they have ONE GUY who does DMD art and animation. While on one hand using movie footage would be super easy and look better on an LCD - they'd still need lots of custom stuff like score and transition animation, custom art. There's a lot more to it than just switching display types.

The DMD is basically the big advertising banner to whoever happens to be looking at the game and not playing at that particular moment. When it first came out it added a huge "hey look at me" factor and it, and video modes, were two big reasons early 90s pinball was so big.

The dmd also offered the opportunity to add cool entertainment and information that helps the player learn the game, which in turn led to much deeper games.

It was new, different and effective - what we call "innovative".

Now it's 20 years old. Compared to other display methods, it's very antiquated. Not only is there no POP left in it, it's an albatross. People who played pinball in the 90s see yet another dmd game and think it's just more of the same. They shrug it off.

When you are a pinball hobbyist and have been around the games for a long time you eventually learn to look past the initial eye candy. But for the casual player scanning an arcade for something to play, that eye candy is the difference between playing or not playing.
 
The DMD is basically the big advertising banner to whoever happens to be looking at the game and not playing at that particular moment. When it first came out it added a huge "hey look at me" factor and it, and video modes, were two big reasons early 90s pinball was so big.

The dmd also offered the opportunity to add cool entertainment and information that helps the player learn the game, which in turn led to much deeper games.

It was new, different and effective - what we call "innovative".

Now it's 20 years old. Compared to other display methods, it's very antiquated. Not only is there no POP left in it, it's an albatross. People who played pinball in the 90s see yet another dmd game and think it's just more of the same. They shrug it off.

When you are a pinball hobbyist and have been around the games for a long time you eventually learn to look past the initial eye candy. But for the casual player scanning an arcade for something to play, that eye candy is the difference between playing or not playing.

Well, I disagree. The backglass is the advertising banner that gets you to notice the game from across the room. When you walk up to the game, the eye candy is what you see on the playfield. While I agree that a color display would be cool - it's not going to save pinball, sell more games, get more players, or re-open dead arcades. Stern's hanging on by a thread...there are some things I'll cut them some slack on.
 
I'm probably one of just a few that would be glad that stern is making something new to play. Stern seems to get cut down by several members here, but the fact is they are the only company left. I'm sure stern would be willing to make a deep rule set machine with bells and whistles, but then would have to sell it for $6,000 plus of which everyone would then complain about the price.
 
Well, I disagree. The backglass is the advertising banner that gets you to notice the game from across the room. When you walk up to the game, the eye candy is what you see on the playfield. While I agree that a color display would be cool - it's not going to save pinball, sell more games, get more players, or re-open dead arcades. Stern's hanging on by a thread...there are some things I'll cut them some slack on.

Here is a little quiz for all of you. Look at these three images.

http://www.bestofvegas.com/hotels/Greek-Isles-Las-Vegas-Hotel-and-Casino/images/greek_isles_sign.jpg

http://www.socala.com/sands/sands-hotel-sign.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/uvak/images/USA Trip - Las Vegas/Las Vegas Monte Carlo Marquee.jpg

1) All else being equal, which of these vegas hotel/casino signs do you think would most likely draw in new, younger business or first-time gamblers?

2) Which do you think would appeal to the senior citizen 99 cent breakfast deal crowd?

3) Which one of these signs looks like it might have been built in the 1980s?

4) When you look at the Greek Isles and then look at the Monte Carlo, assuming you know nothing of either one, which one at first glance looks more exciting and why?

5) Since signage alone didn't revolutionize gambling, do you think the owners of the Monte Carlo were foolish to spend millions on such a display?
 
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