First Pin, Question And Price Estimate?

hotrod797

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Hey all,

Just bought my first pin tonight and wondering if I got a good deal, also need suggestions as to where to start with a possible electrical issue.

The machine is flash gordon, side art is pretty worn and the play field also has some wear, the typical up the middle of the field but everything is still legible...

So first question, what should I expect to pay for a machine like this, second what is the best thing to do about the side art as well as the play field (overlays, stencil, leave it alone??) ??

Next, and the bigger issue is the guy said it was starting to have a voltage issue, with this being my first pin I'm not real sure where to start, or if that's the problem at all...
Symptoms are: the two bottom flippers are moving slower than normal, they are still strong enough to hit the ball to the top of the lower playing field, but that's about it..

The other issue is the third flipper on the second level, the guy said he unhooked it because the plunger continuously got stuck out and caused it to melt, he replaced the diode and coil twice which didn't resolve the issue, he said it was also believed to be a voltage issue...

So where do I start? What do I need to check/replace to get the strength of those lower flippers back?
What about the third flipper, I am at a complete loss there, I assumed it was the coil, but like I said he replaced it twice with the old parts on hand to prove it!!

I know I have a lot of what is probably pretty rookie questions, but like I said this is my first pin ever, and regardless if I got ripped off or not I'm pretty stoked playing it as is right now!!
 
I feel a lot of typing coming on...

Hey all,

Just bought my first pin tonight and wondering if I got a good deal, also need suggestions as to where to start with a possible electrical issue.

You're better off telling us what you paid and asking for opinions.

what is the best thing to do about the side art as well as the play field (overlays, stencil, leave it alone??) ??

At this point your best option is likely to leave it alone. Do some reading online about touch up and stenciling and decide from there what you want to do. You're probably going to want to strip and clean the playfield but that's another job you can research and dive in when you feel comfortable.

Next, and the bigger issue is the guy said it was starting to have a voltage issue, with this being my first pin I'm not real sure where to start, or if that's the problem at all...

Most likely not the problem at all.

Symptoms are: the two bottom flippers are moving slower than normal, they are still strong enough to hit the ball to the top of the lower playing field, but that's about it..

Could just be dirty and in need of adjustment but most likely need the coil sleeve replaced at a minimum. You can improve the performance of the flippers by disassembling them, cleaning all the parts, reassemble and adjust the end of stroke switches but again... you might need to replace some parts. If you want to post some close up pictures of the flipper assemblies from the bottom of the playfield we can tell you if there is anything obviously wrong.

The other issue is the third flipper on the second level, the guy said he unhooked it because the plunger continuously got stuck out and caused it to melt, he replaced the diode and coil twice which didn't resolve the issue, he said it was also believed to be a voltage issue...

I wonder what made the person think it was a voltage issue? I have to assume they just made that up because it sounded cool. I mean... you could say it's a voltage issue in the sense the voltage was being constantly being applied to the coil causing it to melt but in that case any problem on the whole machine is a voltage issue.

But I digress... the upper flipper is energized by an end of stroke switch on the lower flipper on that side. Your end of stroke switch contacts have probably melted together causing the upper flipper to stay on. That's a guess but it's a pretty good guess. This is a problem that we can point out with pictures.


So where do I start? What do I need to check/replace to get the strength of those lower flippers back?

Like I said you can start by cleaning/adjusting the flippers but you'll need to do some research on how flippers work and what parts/kits are available for that machine. Your best bet will most likely be to buy "flipper kits". It's not the cheapest option but it's the quickest and easiest. Pinball resource sells kits for Bally games.

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html

What about the third flipper, I am at a complete loss there, I assumed it was the coil, but like I said he replaced it twice with the old parts on hand to prove it!!

Ironically when people are new to pinball they tend to assume that problems like this are the coil but the problem is almost never the coil. No disrespect to the original owner but replacing the coil and diode twice was pretty dumb. If it didn't fix the problem the first time the chances of it fixing the problem the second time are pretty slim.

Again... it sounds to me like the coil is sticking on. This is most likely because the switch on the lower flipper is stuck closed for some reason. Either it bent, the contacts melted together or some other problem causing the contacts to stay closed.

I know I have a lot of what is probably pretty rookie questions, but like I said this is my first pin ever, and regardless if I got ripped off or not I'm pretty stoked playing it as is right now!!

Flash Gordon is a good game. I've done a fairly extensive restoration on one but I sold it. I have another one buried in storage until the new playfields come out (if ever).

Oh yeah... Classic Playfields is will most likely be reproducing the playfields some time in the next 1-3 years:

http://www.classicplayfields.com/order.html

EDIT: I feel like I should clarify something. The upper flipper is energized by a switch on the lower flipper. So... when you press the cabinet button the lower flipper "flips" all the way up and once it reaches the end of plunger stroke another switch closes (on the flipper assembly) to energize the upper flipper. It's also possible that both flippers are wired in parallel with the cabinet switch but I kind of doubt it.

EDIT2: I'm assuming the upper flipper is on all the time as soon as the flipper relay is energized (you're playing a game). Is that true? I'm just trying to figure out why someone would replace a coil, watch it burn up then stick another one in there and watch it burn up. Please correct me if this is not what happened and it's in fact an intermittent problem.
 
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Sounds like maybe some EOS problems....

Thanks for enforcing that for me, after doing a little reading from the link posted above I was starting to think the same... I will check that out once I get the machine set back up at my house.

Any clue what a good price would be for this thing??
 
I feel a lot of typing coming on...



You're better off telling us what you paid and asking for opinions.



At this point your best option is likely to leave it alone. Do some reading online about touch up and stenciling and decide from there what you want to do. You're probably going to want to strip and clean the playfield but that's another job you can research and dive in when you feel comfortable.



Most likely not the problem at all.



Could just be dirty and in need of adjustment but most likely need the coil sleeve replaced at a minimum. You can improve the performance of the flippers by disassembling them, cleaning all the parts, reassemble and adjust the end of stroke switches but again... you might need to replace some parts. If you want to post some close up pictures of the flipper assemblies from the bottom of the playfield we can tell you if there is anything obviously wrong.



I wonder what made the person think it was a voltage issue? I have to assume they just made that up because it sounded cool. I mean... you could say it's a voltage issue in the sense the voltage was being constantly being applied to the coil causing it to melt but in that case any problem on the whole machine is a voltage issue.

But I digress... the upper flipper is energized by an end of stroke switch on the lower flipper on that side. Your end of stroke switch contacts have probably melted together causing the upper flipper to stay on. That's a guess but it's a pretty good guess. This is a problem that we can point out with pictures.




Like I said you can start by cleaning/adjusting the flippers but you'll need to do some research on how flippers work and what parts/kits are available for that machine. Your best bet will most likely be to buy "flipper kits". It's not the cheapest option but it's the quickest and easiest. Pinball resource sells kits for Bally games.

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html



Ironically when people are new to pinball they tend to assume that problems like this are the coil but the problem is almost never the coil. No disrespect to the original owner but replacing the coil and diode twice was pretty dumb. If it didn't fix the problem the first time the chances of it fixing the problem the second time are pretty slim.

Again... it sounds to me like the coil is sticking on. This is most likely because the switch on the lower flipper is stuck closed for some reason. Either it bent, the contacts melted together or some other problem causing the contacts to stay closed.



Flash Gordon is a good game. I've done a fairly extensive restoration on one but I sold it. I have another one buried in storage until the new playfields come out (if ever).

Oh yeah... Classic Playfields is will most likely be reproducing the playfields some time in the next 1-3 years:

http://www.classicplayfields.com/order.html

EDIT: I feel like I should clarify something. The upper flipper is energized by a switch on the lower flipper. So... when you press the cabinet button the lower flipper "flips" all the way up and once it reaches the end of plunger stroke another switch closes (on the flipper assembly) to energize the upper flipper. It's also possible that both flippers are wired in parallel with the cabinet switch but I kind of doubt it.

EDIT2: I'm assuming the upper flipper is on all the time as soon as the flipper relay is energized (you're playing a game). Is that true? I'm just trying to figure out why someone would replace a coil, watch it burn up then stick another one in there and watch it burn up. Please correct me if this is not what happened and it's in fact an intermittent problem.

WOW!! Thanks for all the info!! As soon as I get it moved in and set back up I will get some pictures up so I can figure out whats going on...

Judging by the above stated $150 I probably over paid, but once again this is my first pin, and I really wanted it, he was asking $400, but I negotiated a bit.. Then again I don't plan to sell it, just wondered if I got a decent deal, all other pins in my area (even in worse condition) are over $1000....
 
WOW!! Thanks for all the info!! As soon as I get it moved in and set back up I will get some pictures up so I can figure out whats going on...

Judging by the above stated $150 I probably over paid, but once again this is my first pin, and I really wanted it, he was asking $400, but I negotiated a bit.. Then again I don't plan to sell it, just wondered if I got a decent deal, all other pins in my area (even in worse condition) are over $1000....

hotrod797, I don't know, I paid $300 for my Flash (no relation).. spent maybe another $150+ in parts to get it working and I'm very happy with it. Like you, my current intention is to keep it, so a working SS pin for $500 or so is a good deal in my book.
 
Judging by the above stated $150 I probably over paid

With all due respect to tron guy $150 is pretty unrealistic. Sure I've bought games for that or less but it's not the norm (IMO).

I sold my first Flash Gordon for $900. Granted, it was "shopped" but the playfield had quite a bit of wear. That said... I wouldn't consider that the norm either. Somewhere in the middle could be considered average. Flash Gordon is one of those games that's really bad for wear.
 
I put in a pre order for the playfield :)

Should be in the house and set up by tomorrow night, I will get pictures of its current state.

I found where a shopped flash Gordon sold for $1700, not to mention some idiot trying to sell the back glass for $800 on ebay..
So all in all I am pretty happy with my purchase!!
 
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So I got it in and all set up, I got the S&T worked out (was not talking) I snapped a few pictures, can't find any EOS switches that are messed up... In self test mode it says switch 01 is (2 R&L RO switches) But I checked them and they all have a gap, guess I am going to have to trace out the wiring...
Power is still low to the flippers (and everything else for that matter) light's kinda dim when you hit a flipper switch, and all the bumpers seem weak, so I don't know where to start..

Luckily it's still very playable, and I am having a blast!!
 

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I feel a lot of typing coming on...



You're better off telling us what you paid and asking for opinions.



At this point your best option is likely to leave it alone. Do some reading online about touch up and stenciling and decide from there what you want to do. You're probably going to want to strip and clean the playfield but that's another job you can research and dive in when you feel comfortable.



Most likely not the problem at all.



Could just be dirty and in need of adjustment but most likely need the coil sleeve replaced at a minimum. You can improve the performance of the flippers by disassembling them, cleaning all the parts, reassemble and adjust the end of stroke switches but again... you might need to replace some parts. If you want to post some close up pictures of the flipper assemblies from the bottom of the playfield we can tell you if there is anything obviously wrong.



I wonder what made the person think it was a voltage issue? I have to assume they just made that up because it sounded cool. I mean... you could say it's a voltage issue in the sense the voltage was being constantly being applied to the coil causing it to melt but in that case any problem on the whole machine is a voltage issue.

But I digress... the upper flipper is energized by an end of stroke switch on the lower flipper on that side. Your end of stroke switch contacts have probably melted together causing the upper flipper to stay on. That's a guess but it's a pretty good guess. This is a problem that we can point out with pictures.




Like I said you can start by cleaning/adjusting the flippers but you'll need to do some research on how flippers work and what parts/kits are available for that machine. Your best bet will most likely be to buy "flipper kits". It's not the cheapest option but it's the quickest and easiest. Pinball resource sells kits for Bally games.

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html



Ironically when people are new to pinball they tend to assume that problems like this are the coil but the problem is almost never the coil. No disrespect to the original owner but replacing the coil and diode twice was pretty dumb. If it didn't fix the problem the first time the chances of it fixing the problem the second time are pretty slim.

Again... it sounds to me like the coil is sticking on. This is most likely because the switch on the lower flipper is stuck closed for some reason. Either it bent, the contacts melted together or some other problem causing the contacts to stay closed.



Flash Gordon is a good game. I've done a fairly extensive restoration on one but I sold it. I have another one buried in storage until the new playfields come out (if ever).

Oh yeah... Classic Playfields is will most likely be reproducing the playfields some time in the next 1-3 years:

http://www.classicplayfields.com/order.html

EDIT: I feel like I should clarify something. The upper flipper is energized by a switch on the lower flipper. So... when you press the cabinet button the lower flipper "flips" all the way up and once it reaches the end of plunger stroke another switch closes (on the flipper assembly) to energize the upper flipper. It's also possible that both flippers are wired in parallel with the cabinet switch but I kind of doubt it.

EDIT2: I'm assuming the upper flipper is on all the time as soon as the flipper relay is energized (you're playing a game). Is that true? I'm just trying to figure out why someone would replace a coil, watch it burn up then stick another one in there and watch it burn up. Please correct me if this is not what happened and it's in fact an intermittent problem.

Try coil sleeves and clean all contact switches.
 
$350 is not too bad jumping in

Fully working and looking halfway decent it's worth probably $750. Fully restored and shopped it's worth $1150. *bows left, bows center, bows right*
 
Try Big Daddy Electronics for parts kits to fix your classic Bally pinball. If Big Daddy doesn't carry it.........you don't need it. Thanks, --Rich
 
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