First Pin Purchase - Black Knight - Help

CamaroMurph

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I am going to dip my toe into the pinball pool finally. I am going to look at a Black Knight pin and wanted to know what things to look for.

Murph
 
Hmm...

1.) Go to Google and look up some of the items for this machine so you know what you can replace easily. Stuff like repro playfields, the backglass, a stencil set for the cabinet, plastics set, etc. Luckily I think this game is popular enough that there are tons of resources and NOS/repro shit out there.

2.) Check the whole machine out top to bottom if possible: the back, the underside (rotting bottom or beer damage can be common), take off the glass and inspect the playfield for wear/missing items/broken or warped plastics, lift the playfield and check for rat nesting, look in the back box for battery acid damage, etc.

3.) If the displays work then read up on test mode for the machine and run a round of diagnostics / lamp and coil tests.

4.) If not fully working think really hard if you are ready to tackle a pinball project. It is a lot more headache to keep a pin 100% working compared to a vid, and if you end up with board problems it may require a lot of work and research to repair.

Pricewise I'd say shoot for around $600-1100 fully working and $200-500 non working depending on what you can determine is wrong with it and overall condition.

EDIT: You could also look up how to use PinMAME and try the game out a bit before you go look at it as well. That way you will know approximately how the game should play.
 
CPR still has plastic sets available. They sold all their second-quality playfields...no more listed on bargain basement. :(
 
Good advice! I wished I had asked advice before buying what I have now!

I attended a seminar for newbies at the PPE a few months ago, and the guy doing it made some great points.
The main thing that stuck in my head was his persistence of playing a machine you're considering buying at least a dozen times to check for function, and especially to see if you think you'll enjoy the game after owning it.

Good luck, my neighbor will be purchasing a Black Knight next month and needs to keep it at my house until he makes room for it at his place. Works for me!!!
 
I've had bad luck with that "playing it a dozen" times thing... seems like most everyone I've went to go look at machines fell under one of the following scenarios:

1. Machine not working.

2. Machine thought to be not working, was simple fix and I ran away with a hell of a steal.

3. Machine working, but owner was not amicable to letting it be played that much. :p

Kind of hard to play a game that much, especially trolling CL, from an owner that's probably nervous about having people off the INTARWEBZ in their house in the first place. Unless it's off a pinball specific site, I'd bet 20$ that most sellers aren't going to have the patience for a buyer to do that.. :p

I do agree with fully checking it out, all switches and everything especially if there's a switch test, but playing it a dozen times...they're not going to stand around and watch you play the machine for 45 minutes.
 
Thanks for the tips so far. Keep them coming. I have to admit it's a little intimidating. I'm not at all uncomfortable with vid's as I know my limits well.

I've been reading the instuction book available on line and without knowing pinball I must say I can't imagine a CL seller walking me through it or sitting there waiting for me to figure out how to open the back box. I'm not too concerned about electrical repair but thought I'd ask if there are any common failure of these like sound or battery damage.

I'll keep an eye out for water damage. I didn't think this would be too much of an issue with a pin as it sits up on the tall legs. but if it was stored no on the legs........ good call.

The game I am looking at is said to be working if that helps narrow the what to look for tips a little.

Murph
 
OK. First really stupid question..........

Where is the Auto-Up/Manual Down switch? Inside the coin door?

Where is the Advance button?

Wow I guess that's two stupid questions. I'm on a roll.
 
open the coin door and you'll see 3 buttons. far right is advance. middle is auto-up- when down it makes advance count backwards.

you'll need manual to know all the functions.

i bought black knight and LOVE it. everyone will like this game because it has all the facets of a good machine. long loop, drop targets, a bumper. magna save is awesome.

look for jury rigged stuff. are screw holes stripped underneath. do solder and repairs look nasty. look at boards in back- are the boards clean and not cobbled up. connectors complete and not cobbled.

if the game looks cobbled up, it was probably cobbled up and poorly maintained equating to ongoing repair work for you.

play this game a good solid half hour and see if it resets. i read that the long connector between the processor board on the far left top and the board below gets flakey and may need replaced if resets aren't related to power issues.
 
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If someone is not willing to let me play a dozen times, then I won't be interested in purchasing. If they won't let me, then they might be concerned of something going wrong, or it might do "that" while he's playing.
If they're not comfortable, then I won't be either.

I looked at a game a couple months back and the guy watched me like a hawk when I played the game. I asked questions, and he wouldn't/couldn't answer them, very vague...
On my first game when I hit all the targets for the fun part of the game it powered off. Of course, he'd never seen that happen before. I took off the glass and looked underneath and you could tell things have been altered, so I thanked him for his time and split.

I still see it pop up on craigslist once in a while, so obviously he hasn't sold it yet...
 
LOL I don't think I've ever bought a machine that was actually working.... all of them have been 'dead' at the time of purchase.

Then again, that's a lot of the fun for me.

-Hans
 
I have never bought a machine that was fully working. I like the price of non-working machines. I find that most are small issues or in the case of early SS Bally's ... CORROSION!
 
Hrm. I thought the "auto up manual down" switches were supposed to be pushbuttons that lock in place when you push them in the down position, then raise up and stay up when you push them again..

BUT...

My space shuttle has a flip switch like the one shown on that picture as well, lol. Pretty sure it's not wired right, as last time I checked, couldn't move backwards through the tests...
 
My pics are on my Gorgar, which came out about the time Black Knight did I believe. It's been around, so it may not be original!
 
Yeah, I was planning on replacing the bank of switches on my Shuttle with what seems to be appropriate, but I'd just be happy if I can get the switch working for the reverse side too. Doesn't really MATTER as long as it works, unlike some other things in pinball, lol.
 
Black Knight is a great game. I have had a couple and kept 1 for a full restore with a CPR PF, new backglass, and new plastics and bumper cap. I just cant find the time to dig in and get it going. I would see if you can find one working or close to working if you just want a player. A fully restored one could be $1200-$2000 easily. The playfield alone was $600, a new glass will run you close to $300 if mayfair has any left, and a $150 range for plastics, and $20-$30 for a proper repro pop bumper cap.

Michael
 
There are 3 things that I look for on any pin before I purchase and I am by no means an expert.

1. Playfield condition.

2. Water damage of any kind.

3. Hacks.

I figure most anything else can be fixed or replaced. I make an offer accordingly. -Barry
 
LOL I don't think I've ever bought a machine that was actually working.... all of them have been 'dead' at the time of purchase.

Then again, that's a lot of the fun for me.

-Hans
Ive bought several non working machines that were easily revived....then again Ive bought several older working games that werent all that working after all:rolleyes:

There are 3 things that I look for on any pin before I purchase and I am by no means an expert.

1. Playfield condition.

2. Water damage of any kind.

3. Hacks.

I figure most anything else can be fixed or replaced. I make an offer accordingly. -Barry
I can usually figure out and reverse the hacks, but I agree on the other two, I cant stand trying to touch up a playfield, and water damage just plain sucks
 
Keep the thoughts coming guys. Thanks for the pic's as well. That is very helpful. The visual items like playfield condition, water damage are important to me as I hate cabinet (wood/painting) work. Should be easier for me to figure this out.

The electronics side is certainly where I think I will have the most trouble evaluating condition. If I get it wrong, getting it straightened out should be within my capabilities. It's more about understanding condition here to acess value of the game before making an offer. I would hate to pay a higher price for a game that I find out after getting it home has all kinds of things I need to fix. Sounds like trying to run the self test and just playing it are the best things to do.

Not sure if I am going to look at this thing today or not. Waiting to hear back from the seller.

Murph
 
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