Fireball 2 Questions

FrizzleFried

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Picked up a Fireball II on trade...

... it was set for CHIME. When I got it home I switched it to full sound... which is where I am having issues.

On CHIME setting... everything worked... pop bumpers made noise... rollovers made noise... drop targets make noise... slinshots, etc...

...on setting 03 (sounds and background noise) I get noise for pop bumbers and slingshots... but other sounds are absent... all roll-overs are silent... all drop targets are silent... and the background noise is silent.

I know it's not a switch issue as I get scores for each... and like I said... the CHIMES work.

Where to start?

EDIT: Here is a shot of the soundboard...

...is it supposed to be missing those ROMS, etc? How about the fact that the middle bottom connector leaves 3 empty pins on the right of the connector? Or the connector to the far bottom right that has 2 pins and leaves quite a few (5?) empty? Is that how it's supposed to be?

SQUACKNTALK1.jpg
 
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I was going to create another thread but I figured I'd just add to this one...

Overall the playfield on the FB2 is in decent shape... I think it will clean up well. There IS one problem area that I am looking for advice on though...

Here is the playfield as it appears today when I got her home...

FB2_PLAYFIELD.jpg


Here is a detail of the problem area... which is unfortunately right in the middle of the playfield directly below the trapped ball under the playfield...

FB2_PLAYFIELDDAM1.jpg


What you are looking at is a rectangle area where someone has removed the factory mylar. I am not sure why... I can only guess that there was some insert issues or something. Anyway... where the mylar is missing the paint is starting to wear. There is also a slight effect to slow moving balls in the area as well...

How do I deal with such an issue? I was THINKING about cleaning it up nicely... sticking some of my own mylar on and using a sharp blade to match the "cut" of the original cut... suggestions? Opinions?
 
i'd put an ESR meter on those capacitors and see if any are out of spec/dried out. all kinds of screwy things can happen if one or more are bad.
while, it was sitting on my workstation, id check it over for any cold solder joints and reflow them.
then,
look inside the connectors for any weak pins that arent gripping the PCB tight enough for proper electron flow. you can tell pins are weak as the spacing of them all arent quite like the others.
pull the chips, clean the legs, inspect the sockets, reinstall board and test.
if im still having trouble then id start testing input voltages to the board
does the MPU have any acid damage from the batteries ?
 
Commenting on the pf damage. You're screwed buddy. That damage needs to be touched up and then clear coated other wise you run a great risk of having the paint chip off again. Or ..... you can live with it.

As far as ball travel issues in that area, Yes you could mylar over it again for sure. Ensure the inserts are flush with the table and if not pound em flush.
 
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Are you getting any speech? Fireball II also talks to you.

Edward


Yes... speech is fine (it does talk... though I can't be 100% sure it says EVERYTHING but I have no reason to believe it doesn't).

The issue is with the background sounds and and the a good number of the "effect" sounds each target makes.

I just find it VERY VERY odd that the chimes work fine (indicating the switches and wiring is fine)... but the effects for each sound don't.

:(
 
Commenting on the pf damage. You're screwed buddy. That damage needs to be touched up and then clear coated other wise you run a great risk of having the paint chip off again. Or ..... you can live with it.

As far as ball travel issues in that area, Yes you could mylar over it again for sure. Ensure the inserts are flush with the table and if not pound em flush.

If I dropped some mylar over it...it shouldn't get worse... or if I touch it up myself and then mylar it it should be OK... right?

I just wonder about my idea of sticking some mylar on then using a sharp blade to try to match the cut... good idea or bad idea? Should I just try to match the shape PRIOR to sticking and go that route? Or should I just wax the shit out of it and live with it?
 
Probably a really crappy day to be asking these questions, eh?

Could this be an issue with the MPU rather than the Squawk & Talk?
 
UPDATE:

I just had a couple minutes to go dink around with the cab. I turned the volume pots all the way up on the S&T and turned the main volume on the coin door up...

...I can hear the background noise... and the sounds... all VERY VERY VERY low volume.

Do the chimes use a different amp than the background noise and effects? Why would a couple effects work but not the others though (if it's the amp)... that doesn't sound logical.

The only thing I can think of is that there are multiple amps on the board and the chime one is working ...and perhaps the pop-bumper effects and the slingshot effects use that same amp but the other amp is out?!?

It seems to me now to be a S&T issue not an MPU issue ... but what do I know?
 
Probably a really crappy day to be asking these questions, eh?

Could this be an issue with the MPU rather than the Squawk & Talk?


Do you hear all the game sounds when putting the S&T in test mode?

My Gorgar wouldnt speak to me during game play but would when in test mode. It was a bad driver board.
 
Do you hear all the game sounds when putting the S&T in test mode?

My Gorgar wouldnt speak to me during game play but would when in test mode. It was a bad driver board.

I'll go check... the voices all appear to be there BTW...and fire when they are supposed to...so it doesn't sound like a driver board issue. The only suspect samples are the noises made when the Lil Demon post is used... I am not sure what is being said but it could be normal.

I'm going to order a S&T cap kit Monday...so I can at least rule that out. I have a sneaky suspicion that may fix the issues... plus I do need new pots anyway (these are REAL noisy). What is the recommended mod to take care of the battery situation? A simple remote kit? Is there an NVRAM option? Cell phone battery?
 
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I hope the cap kit fixes it for you. With the low volume levels it sounds like it.

For the battery on most my pins I remotely mount a battery pack than handles either 3 or 4 AA's (bypassing one if its a 4 battery holder) and have it in a plastic baggy.

On my D&D pin I used a simtek :)
 
....

How do I deal with such an issue? I was THINKING about cleaning it up nicely... sticking some of my own mylar on and using a sharp blade to match the "cut" of the original cut... suggestions? Opinions?

I would touch up the bad spots first. Next would be to take a piece of mylar that is slightly larger than the bad area making sure the replacement overlaps the old. Then, instead of trying to match the "original" cut out, cut the replacement piece slightly wider then the cutout so that you end up cutting both the replacement and a "little" more of the original mylar. This ensures you have a perfect fit.

Good luck!

Phil
 
I'll go check... the voices all appear to be there BTW...and fire when they are supposed to...so it doesn't sound like a driver board issue. The only suspect samples are the noises made when the Lil Demon post is used... I am not sure what is being said but it could be normal.

I'm going to order a S&T cap kit Monday...so I can at least rule that out. I have a sneaky suspicion that may fix the issues... plus I do need new pots anyway (these are REAL noisy). What is the recommended mod to take care of the battery situation? A simple remote kit? Is there an NVRAM option? Cell phone battery?

Bally pinballs work differently than Williams pinballs. I can tell you for a fact....the driver board isn't the problem. I also feel the problem is on the Squawk & Talk board. The two little volume pots are known to be shit and problematic. Even though it sounds like yours are working fine, I'd replace them while you're working on this board (they're cheap, anyway). I also agree with starting with a cap kit. The Squawk & Talk has several different sound circuits. This is why some sounds are fine....while others arn't. If you get impatient while waiting for the cap kit to arrive.....try replacing the two caps at C36 and C43. They are both 2µf 16V caps. One of these (I can't remember which) kinda bridges between two of the audio circuits. If it goes, you loose the sounds from that circuit. If you have any extra 2.2µf caps around, throw them in and see what happens.

Edward
 
Bally pinballs work differently than Williams pinballs. I can tell you for a fact....the driver board isn't the problem. I also feel the problem is on the Squawk & Talk board. The two little volume pots are known to be shit and problematic. Even though it sounds like yours are working fine, I'd replace them while you're working on this board (they're cheap, anyway). I also agree with starting with a cap kit. The Squawk & Talk has several different sound circuits. This is why some sounds are fine....while others arn't. If you get impatient while waiting for the cap kit to arrive.....try replacing the two caps at C36 and C43. They are both 2µf 16V caps. One of these (I can't remember which) kinda bridges between two of the audio circuits. If it goes, you loose the sounds from that circuit. If you have any extra 2.2µf caps around, throw them in and see what happens.

Edward

I may do that. I have a cap kit coming from Bob Roberts... he includes the two pots as well... and 3 or 4 additional caps that the kit at Marco doesn't include...
 
UPDATE...

Thanks for the suggestion Edward... but it's a no-go. I replaced the two caps suggested and there is no difference.
 
If I dropped some mylar over it...it shouldn't get worse... or if I touch it up myself and then mylar it it should be OK... right?

i'd touch it up the best i could with paint and then clearcoat the whole playfield

there are multiple amps on the board and the chime one is working ...and perhaps the pop-bumper effects and the slingshot effects use that same amp but the other amp is out?!?

try swapping amps and see if problem moves
 
Clearcoating the playfield isn't an option as it's fully mylared and I'm not about to remove all the mylar from the playfield to rectify an issue with a tiny portion of it.

I may try swapping amps if the cap kit doesn't help.

Another problem appeared last night while I was stripping the playfield.

I lost one of my lamp circuits. I noticed it right after I lifted the playfield up to replace a couple lamps under it.... The entire circuit controlling the lamps at the bottom of the playfield stopped functioning... not the GI lamps, but the CPU controlled lamps.

I've not had much time to dink around with that issue... where should I start looking? Is there a single fuse per lamp circuit?

I wasn't in the backbox when I lost the lamps so it shouldn't be a connector...should it?

Anywhere else to look?
 
I would think maybe a broken solder joint on a ground or something Frizz. If it happened when you lifted the pf maybe something snagged and got pulled and I think the ground on pins is like the ground on vids: One wire works for an entire line, but I could be wrong.
 
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