This FAQ/HELP page is intended to help Buyers and Sellers of coin-operated arcade games buy machines with knowledge in order to avoid as many problems as possible.
PRICING FOR MACHINES VARIES TREMENDOUSLY
In short, sellers may ask any price they want for their merchandise and should not be criticized for their choices. It is each user's responsibility to research the fair market price for an item. Pricing is a highly subjective matter affected by many factors and thus it would be practically impossible for forum moderators and the users of the system to all agree on when a price critique is not longer valid and becomes 'thread poisoning.' Additionally, differences in price are normal due to a variety of differences:
REASONS FOR PRICE DIFFERENCES
Condition - The cosmetic and mechanical condition of a machine is one of the most important factors in price. Mint conditioned machines will often sell at an exponentially higher price that one in a poor, ugly condition. Some aspects of condition can easily be seen in on-line photos (ie: a side art cabinet decal half missing). Some other damage, including light cigarette burns, mildrew, and general wear and tear might not be easily seen in a photo and only be realized when the machine arrives and the result is disappointment.
Here is some pricing guidelines on a random, imaginary machine as posted on our forums by one of our members, "modessitt".
1) Bad-shape - doesn't work, has some cab damage, gutted/converted, etc. - $0-50
2) Good physical condition and complete but not working $25-100
3) Works, but not very pretty $100-200
4) Works and looks good, but nothing has been done to it in over 10 years. $200-400
5) Works, all internals have been rebuilt-as-new, but cab or artwork shows some wear. $300-600
6) Works, all internals have been rebuilt-as-new, all outside artwork and cab has been restored-as-new. $500-3000 (EDOT, SW cockpit, etc)
7) Still perfect as the day it came from the factory, home-use-only, and never played - just wiped with a diaper. $750-3000+
We've seen a few pinball machines from the 1990s sell for $6,000 to $10,000 each because they were popular titles and brand new in the box (NOS) when similar machines in great, restored shape would only bring $3000.
Eagerness of the Buyer - Personal passion about a machine, easy of finding a substitute, wealth of the buyer, and many other factors can effect the price of a machine, especially if a seller detects and understands these aspects of a buyer.
Eagerness of the Seller - some sellers are just testing the waters, or will only sell at item for a price greater than what the piece could easily be replaced for, or already had a few great sales recently. Some may have trouble paying their rent or want to put the money into something else and will be willing to sell a machine at an unusually large discount for a deal completed quickly.
Economy - Machines tend to bring lower prices in times of large job loss and economic downturn. Prices for most used machines in 2009 are less than they were in 2006. Lower and mid-priced machines tend to suffer the most in times of economic downturn while rare, unique, and the most highly desirable items may remain relatively unaffected.
Monitors – Monitor size, type (CRT or Plasma), and the number of monitors in the machine affect its price.
Nature of the Seller - Sellers and dealers often have higher prices, particularly in cases where a machine is sold by a hobbyist that simply wants the machine out of his or her life. Unlike Costco and Wal-Mart, arcade dealers typically have extremely high operating costs. In fact, Costco excels at turning over its inventory at and average of around 12 times per year, meaning it typically receives payment for its inventory before it even has to pay its suppliers. Many dealers of classic (used) arcade machines have inventory turns of once a year or less. If Costco receives some defective inventory, a manufacturer arranges for it to be picked up and replaced. Arcade dealers often option machines in need of repair or restoration, and often have machines that develop problems while sitting in inventory for a year or more. The arcade dealer has to fix these issues at his own cost. While a dealer may sell at machine at a heavy discount if the machine has been sitting around a long time, is hard to sell, and the dealer simply wants it gone, it is more likely that a machine might be priced at 50% to 300% more than a similar machine on eBay or Craigslist. A lot of what a customer is often getting for this premium is a working, restored machine that is cosmetically attractive, may include a warranty, is currently and easily obtainable (including to overseas buyers), and the likeliness of honest disclosure of its condition from the dealer which usually values its reputation. Additionally, the dealer often includes some hand-holding that experience collector/bargain hunters do not need (ie: "How do I take the machine in and out of free play mode"). The integrity, efficiency, and quality of work of dealers varies tremendously though, and is not necessarily any better (and can be worse) than that found in other users on these forums or elsewhere. Dealers can often be negotiated with, though please remember they are running a business, and probably a barely profitable one. You can always make them an offer, which they might accept or decline.
Nature of the Buyer -- Experienced collectors able to do simple (or complex) repairs themselves are much more likely to be highly price sensitive than non-collectors who just want a machine for the business or game room. Many of these experienced buyers buy only a minority of their purchases from dealers, as they are amply able to conduct due diligence on machines they find for sale and to repair any problems that arise. While experience collectors tend to be more price sensitive than retail buyers, so of course do dealers, who when buying have to think about their inventory costs and selling at a profit.
New or Preowned -- Naturally a new game will cost more than the same machine used.
Number of Simultaneous Players -- Sometimes the same is available in different configurations supporting different numbers of players. A good example is Rampart. An original machine supports three players and tends to be a lot more desirably than ones built with factory conversion kits which supported two players.
Regional Differences - An area's cost of living and relative economic strength tend to affect prices of large arcade machines. Don't expect the best deals in Los Angeles or Manhattan.
Supply vs. Demand - The scarcity of one item vs. another will effect its price if all other factors, including demand, stay constant. The scarcity of supply vs. demand is much more of an important factor than the scarcity of an item itself. Many scarce items have low values because no one wants them, while some relatively common items are very popular and thus their pricing holds up well.
Three D's - Northing separates both commercial operators and collectors from their machines faster than the three 'D's -- death, divorce and disasters, the later including all sorts of disasters from floods to job loss and bankruptcy. Often in these situations machines will need to be sold quickly, and as such, will be liquidated at discount prices.
Type of Cabinet - Often the same machine is available in a standup standard upright version, a jumbo or sitdown (aka cockpit) version, or a cocktail table. A price for one cabinet format is not necessarily applicable to another format.
Warranty - Most machines are sold 'as is' or on a 'working on arrival' basis. Some dealers will offer a 90 day warranty on these machines, though the costs of remote service are not insignificant, and will often result in increase in price on the machine of several hundreds of dollars or more, particularly if the machine is a model known to have problems often, such as the videogame – pinball hybrid 'Baby Pac-Man'.
PRICING FOR MACHINES VARIES TREMENDOUSLY
In short, sellers may ask any price they want for their merchandise and should not be criticized for their choices. It is each user's responsibility to research the fair market price for an item. Pricing is a highly subjective matter affected by many factors and thus it would be practically impossible for forum moderators and the users of the system to all agree on when a price critique is not longer valid and becomes 'thread poisoning.' Additionally, differences in price are normal due to a variety of differences:
REASONS FOR PRICE DIFFERENCES
Condition - The cosmetic and mechanical condition of a machine is one of the most important factors in price. Mint conditioned machines will often sell at an exponentially higher price that one in a poor, ugly condition. Some aspects of condition can easily be seen in on-line photos (ie: a side art cabinet decal half missing). Some other damage, including light cigarette burns, mildrew, and general wear and tear might not be easily seen in a photo and only be realized when the machine arrives and the result is disappointment.
Here is some pricing guidelines on a random, imaginary machine as posted on our forums by one of our members, "modessitt".
1) Bad-shape - doesn't work, has some cab damage, gutted/converted, etc. - $0-50
2) Good physical condition and complete but not working $25-100
3) Works, but not very pretty $100-200
4) Works and looks good, but nothing has been done to it in over 10 years. $200-400
5) Works, all internals have been rebuilt-as-new, but cab or artwork shows some wear. $300-600
6) Works, all internals have been rebuilt-as-new, all outside artwork and cab has been restored-as-new. $500-3000 (EDOT, SW cockpit, etc)
7) Still perfect as the day it came from the factory, home-use-only, and never played - just wiped with a diaper. $750-3000+
We've seen a few pinball machines from the 1990s sell for $6,000 to $10,000 each because they were popular titles and brand new in the box (NOS) when similar machines in great, restored shape would only bring $3000.
Eagerness of the Buyer - Personal passion about a machine, easy of finding a substitute, wealth of the buyer, and many other factors can effect the price of a machine, especially if a seller detects and understands these aspects of a buyer.
Eagerness of the Seller - some sellers are just testing the waters, or will only sell at item for a price greater than what the piece could easily be replaced for, or already had a few great sales recently. Some may have trouble paying their rent or want to put the money into something else and will be willing to sell a machine at an unusually large discount for a deal completed quickly.
Economy - Machines tend to bring lower prices in times of large job loss and economic downturn. Prices for most used machines in 2009 are less than they were in 2006. Lower and mid-priced machines tend to suffer the most in times of economic downturn while rare, unique, and the most highly desirable items may remain relatively unaffected.
Monitors – Monitor size, type (CRT or Plasma), and the number of monitors in the machine affect its price.
Nature of the Seller - Sellers and dealers often have higher prices, particularly in cases where a machine is sold by a hobbyist that simply wants the machine out of his or her life. Unlike Costco and Wal-Mart, arcade dealers typically have extremely high operating costs. In fact, Costco excels at turning over its inventory at and average of around 12 times per year, meaning it typically receives payment for its inventory before it even has to pay its suppliers. Many dealers of classic (used) arcade machines have inventory turns of once a year or less. If Costco receives some defective inventory, a manufacturer arranges for it to be picked up and replaced. Arcade dealers often option machines in need of repair or restoration, and often have machines that develop problems while sitting in inventory for a year or more. The arcade dealer has to fix these issues at his own cost. While a dealer may sell at machine at a heavy discount if the machine has been sitting around a long time, is hard to sell, and the dealer simply wants it gone, it is more likely that a machine might be priced at 50% to 300% more than a similar machine on eBay or Craigslist. A lot of what a customer is often getting for this premium is a working, restored machine that is cosmetically attractive, may include a warranty, is currently and easily obtainable (including to overseas buyers), and the likeliness of honest disclosure of its condition from the dealer which usually values its reputation. Additionally, the dealer often includes some hand-holding that experience collector/bargain hunters do not need (ie: "How do I take the machine in and out of free play mode"). The integrity, efficiency, and quality of work of dealers varies tremendously though, and is not necessarily any better (and can be worse) than that found in other users on these forums or elsewhere. Dealers can often be negotiated with, though please remember they are running a business, and probably a barely profitable one. You can always make them an offer, which they might accept or decline.
Nature of the Buyer -- Experienced collectors able to do simple (or complex) repairs themselves are much more likely to be highly price sensitive than non-collectors who just want a machine for the business or game room. Many of these experienced buyers buy only a minority of their purchases from dealers, as they are amply able to conduct due diligence on machines they find for sale and to repair any problems that arise. While experience collectors tend to be more price sensitive than retail buyers, so of course do dealers, who when buying have to think about their inventory costs and selling at a profit.
New or Preowned -- Naturally a new game will cost more than the same machine used.
Number of Simultaneous Players -- Sometimes the same is available in different configurations supporting different numbers of players. A good example is Rampart. An original machine supports three players and tends to be a lot more desirably than ones built with factory conversion kits which supported two players.
Regional Differences - An area's cost of living and relative economic strength tend to affect prices of large arcade machines. Don't expect the best deals in Los Angeles or Manhattan.
Supply vs. Demand - The scarcity of one item vs. another will effect its price if all other factors, including demand, stay constant. The scarcity of supply vs. demand is much more of an important factor than the scarcity of an item itself. Many scarce items have low values because no one wants them, while some relatively common items are very popular and thus their pricing holds up well.
Three D's - Northing separates both commercial operators and collectors from their machines faster than the three 'D's -- death, divorce and disasters, the later including all sorts of disasters from floods to job loss and bankruptcy. Often in these situations machines will need to be sold quickly, and as such, will be liquidated at discount prices.
Type of Cabinet - Often the same machine is available in a standup standard upright version, a jumbo or sitdown (aka cockpit) version, or a cocktail table. A price for one cabinet format is not necessarily applicable to another format.
Warranty - Most machines are sold 'as is' or on a 'working on arrival' basis. Some dealers will offer a 90 day warranty on these machines, though the costs of remote service are not insignificant, and will often result in increase in price on the machine of several hundreds of dollars or more, particularly if the machine is a model known to have problems often, such as the videogame – pinball hybrid 'Baby Pac-Man'.
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