Ethics among collectors
- Thread starter DugDigger
- Start date
wildwest3163
Active member
Im always getting on my wife about that. Whenever she sells/gives something to one of her friends one of her favorite remarks is "if you ever decide to get rid of it I want it back". I have to remind her that once it changes hands you no longer have any control over it, let...it....go!
seems like whenever I visit my wifes parents I have a brother in law hanging around that always has something hes trying to sale. (few things pop into mind over the last couple years, push mower, riding mower, tool sets, bicycles, battery chargers, ect) Never been sure enough about his suppliers to buy anything though.
One time about 6 months ago he was in the front yard trying to sell me one of those steel mag light flashlights when my father in law walked by, glanced over, and said "Give me my damn flashlight, boy" sigh, things we put up with for out loved ones
seems like whenever I visit my wifes parents I have a brother in law hanging around that always has something hes trying to sale. (few things pop into mind over the last couple years, push mower, riding mower, tool sets, bicycles, battery chargers, ect) Never been sure enough about his suppliers to buy anything though.
One time about 6 months ago he was in the front yard trying to sell me one of those steel mag light flashlights when my father in law walked by, glanced over, and said "Give me my damn flashlight, boy" sigh, things we put up with for out loved ones
gorfchampion
New member
Only a rotten SOB would do what this guy pulled on you. Just shows that greed runs this world more than anything. If I was you I would let him know that you think what he did was just plain evil; then walk away. Every day I'm just amazed at the things people in this world do. Sometimes makes me want to live on a deserted island.
shred
Active member
Mark what happened?
I do not think it is about games, it seems ethics are gone from America in general and as things get worse so do ethics. Patriotism seems to be going out the window too. But I still think there are some good people out there but it is sad what is happening to America and it seems to start with politicians.. Funny thing is people are actually proud of screwing other people over. Very Sad. We are in the me generation.. It is all about me..
Gorfchampion hit it on the head "Just shows that greed runs this world more than anything"
Dave
VectorJunkie
Well-known member
I suspect that tester007 is asking if anyone wants a to buy repros of Mark's kit judging by this thread...
http://forums.klov.com/showthread.php?t=103657
I think your right about this,but especially it applies to games from what I've heard. People competing and ripping off others just to resell. I don't mind if someone just wants to get rid of it or is an op going out of business but if its a fellow collector that thinks you want it for your collection that's terrible and said users should be shunned from the collecting community. And if your friend were to give you a good price or free then you shouldn't sell it unless you really need to.
Luddite
Member
From the 1979 movie Being There
"No matter what you are told, there is no such thing as an even trade."
"No matter what you are told, there is no such thing as an even trade."
p1899m
New member
While some people are surely out to steal a deal only to resell and make a profit, there are often times when one collector sells a game to another at a low price simply because they know the other guy and trust him. There is not always a conversation of "I'm giving you such a great deal because I know you really want this game and will give it a good home." So sometime the person who gets the great deal plays the game for a month or so then decides he doesn't really like it that much and sells it for a large profit. It's not really his fault for selling it. The original seller should have set a price he would have been happy with. If the original seller feels he was wronged then too bad as it was his fault. BTW I've been in the position of the original seller and I learned my lesson. Have also learned to judge the people who get over excited about games and claim that they really want such and such title badly ect. only to sell it shorty after because they really didn't like it. Some folks are notorious for this. And to some folks money means more than a game they claim is a must for their collection. It really comes down to judging who you are dealing with and their intentions.
Grey
New member
I think what you have to ask yourself is; if you knew the value of the pin before you origionally bought it, would you have told him what it was worth, or would you have kept it to yourself in order to get a far cheaper price? For all I know, you could be a really great stand-up guy who would have told the origional seller the value of what he had on his hands.
The general consensus around here seems to be that it's ok to screw everyone else over, as long as its not anyone in the hobby circle. Honor among collectors, perhaps? He did take advantage of you, but it's only because of the fact the shoe is on the other foot that it seems like an 'ethics' issue. How do you think the guy you bought it from would feel if he found out just how much all those games he sold to you we're worth?
I would feel cheated if I we're in your place, yes, but I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the moral highground. I think you expected a level of honesty from a guy you didn't really know as a close friend, and he took advantage of that fact, while at the same time you should have looked into it more deeply once the game was in your posession before flipping it.
The general consensus around here seems to be that it's ok to screw everyone else over, as long as its not anyone in the hobby circle. Honor among collectors, perhaps? He did take advantage of you, but it's only because of the fact the shoe is on the other foot that it seems like an 'ethics' issue. How do you think the guy you bought it from would feel if he found out just how much all those games he sold to you we're worth?
I would feel cheated if I we're in your place, yes, but I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the moral highground. I think you expected a level of honesty from a guy you didn't really know as a close friend, and he took advantage of that fact, while at the same time you should have looked into it more deeply once the game was in your posession before flipping it.
shardian
New member
There is a difference between buying something off of a random person, and off of an alleged friend.
No, I don't feel an obligation to a random person to let them know their item is drastically under priced. I do have a policy that if I feel I am getting a great deal, I will not even consider negotiating a lower price. If a person offers something for sale, they have assigned their personal value to the object - that is all that matters.
I also would have no problem telling the same random person that I cleaned up the game and sold it for 3x what I paid. Why? Because I am knowledgeable on the subject, and made sure the game was clean, fully functional, and I knew where to look for the right buyers.
What the guy did was crappy though, because he exploited the OP by pretending to be his friend.
No, I don't feel an obligation to a random person to let them know their item is drastically under priced. I do have a policy that if I feel I am getting a great deal, I will not even consider negotiating a lower price. If a person offers something for sale, they have assigned their personal value to the object - that is all that matters.
I also would have no problem telling the same random person that I cleaned up the game and sold it for 3x what I paid. Why? Because I am knowledgeable on the subject, and made sure the game was clean, fully functional, and I knew where to look for the right buyers.
What the guy did was crappy though, because he exploited the OP by pretending to be his friend.
bit_slicer
New member
I remember this issue was brought up a while back. My stance then and now is that it is encumbent on both buyer AND seller to be knowledgeable about said goods trading hands. Should either party be morally obligated to warn the other of impending screwage? I don't think so, and here's my reasoning: Most of us in the collecting 'circle' spend an inordinate amount of time dedicated to becoming more-knowledgable about the hobby. We scour eBay, craigslist, CTCW (see? if you know what that means then you've likely already spent an hour or more 'in the hobby' today!), and the local classifieds. Most of us read at least two newsgroups a day completely, and are informed on how to perform minor fixes, and etc, etc, etc. If you add up all the hours we've spent over said n00b who is seemingly innocent about the deal, and then divide that into the $$ difference of the 'deal', I bet you'd come up under minimum wage! Bottom line, those of us in the know have earned the right to allow a deal to go our way, especially when it falls in our laps!
Price police be damned!!!
Price police be damned!!!
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pacray
Well-known member
I sold a Haunted House pinball game a few years back to a guy who never came to get it. He sent me a check, it cleared. He contacted me a few times saying he would be coming to pick it up, but after about 6 months just stopped communicating and emails bounced back.
A friend/collector would always remark how cool he thought the Haunted House was and wanted it for his collection, so I asked him if he would like to "store" it for me in his basement, as I was getting tired of seeing it. Well, after several years, he decided he didn't want the game any more and asked me if I wanted it back. I told him I considered it sold, and if he wanted to sell it he should feel free to do so.
He did sell it, and then offered to give me half of what he sold it for. When I declined his offer, he told me how he felt badly about the whole thing and the only way he could rest easy was if I accepted a pinball from his collection. Which eventually I consented to do.
Now, not everyone is going to have the same sensibilities as my friend. But when you do find someone like this, you know that he is in the hobby for something other than the money, and is someone you can probably call your friend.
I would say just realize that not everyone you run in to in any area of life is gong to be as considerate as you may expect, and some would happily take your games, take your money, or sleep with your wife, without ever loosing a winks sleep over it.
A friend/collector would always remark how cool he thought the Haunted House was and wanted it for his collection, so I asked him if he would like to "store" it for me in his basement, as I was getting tired of seeing it. Well, after several years, he decided he didn't want the game any more and asked me if I wanted it back. I told him I considered it sold, and if he wanted to sell it he should feel free to do so.
He did sell it, and then offered to give me half of what he sold it for. When I declined his offer, he told me how he felt badly about the whole thing and the only way he could rest easy was if I accepted a pinball from his collection. Which eventually I consented to do.
Now, not everyone is going to have the same sensibilities as my friend. But when you do find someone like this, you know that he is in the hobby for something other than the money, and is someone you can probably call your friend.
I would say just realize that not everyone you run in to in any area of life is gong to be as considerate as you may expect, and some would happily take your games, take your money, or sleep with your wife, without ever loosing a winks sleep over it.
EVB
Well-known member
The tool didn't even collect it, he flipped it. At least if I had gotten it for $300 I would have been playing it. Pretty lame.
bit_slicer
New member
Wundercade
New member
Courtesy is a victim's wager. You were courteous enough not to ask the follow up question to his offer. Which would have been, "Is 350.00 about what this game goes for?" No doubt you assumed it must be since that is what his offer was.
Don't be so courteous in the future. If you have doubts...let them be known. If you think what he did was shitty - let him know it when you see him again. He might just agree with you and try to make up for it somehow.
But the bottom line is, once bitten - twice shy, do your homework next time before you accept an offer. And tell this guy it was a dick move and throw the word "scam" in there for good measure, I'm sure he'll like that.
ChadTower
Active member
When I was new to pinball a couple locals tried really hard to court me as "pals" so they could get the 9/10 Twilight Zone I had. They went so far as to invite me to one of their houses and buddy up to me all night. Of course, all the way making offers that "are really reasonable" and turned out to be less than half of reasonable.
Sadly, one of the guys is a respected member of RGP, and often gets "good guy" posts. I only sort of went public and he flat called me a liar anyway... so really, even going public, it whacks your rep as a newbie as much as it whacks the guy's rep as a known collector.
Sadly, one of the guys is a respected member of RGP, and often gets "good guy" posts. I only sort of went public and he flat called me a liar anyway... so really, even going public, it whacks your rep as a newbie as much as it whacks the guy's rep as a known collector.
matt
New member
So you did do research into cocktail pins? You must have looked on ebay, and saw a working one from 1979 went for $120 and one is up for bid at $130. $350 for a non working one, really sounds like a buddy deal. I wish I was as saintly as you are.
I'd also like to point out these 3 post, that just happen to be on the front page of the forum.(not trying to say these guys are bad, just on the front page) Which deals with people getting games cheaply.
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=103656&page=2
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=103447
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=103613
What is the big difference between these "awesome deals" and this "rotten SOB" and "evil guy"
I'd also like to point out these 3 post, that just happen to be on the front page of the forum.(not trying to say these guys are bad, just on the front page) Which deals with people getting games cheaply.
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=103656&page=2
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=103447
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=103613
What is the big difference between these "awesome deals" and this "rotten SOB" and "evil guy"
Scucci
Well-known member
Ethics are weird really... I treat everyone as fairly as I can.
I just picked up a Ms. Pac-Man mini for $100 yesterday... the lady asked what they would normally sell for... I told her I wasn't going to be selling it, but then I told her what I would expect to see one go for at an auction and what she might've been able to get on CL (assuming someone REALLY wanted it). Needless to say both figures were WELL over $100.. actually several hundred over. She just smiled and said, "Well, it's yours now."
I've had this happen several times... If asked, I'll always tell the seller what it's worth on average. If they decide to NOT sell it after I tell them, that's their call, but I really could never sleep with myself at night if I openly went out of my way to take advantage of someone.
If they don't ask... I just pay, load, and leave. I mean, I'm not going to go out of my way to make something potentially more expensive for me. There are a few exceptions... I picked up a Galaga and Pole Position from a guy at $100 for both. I saved his address and sent him a check a few days later for some extra money just because I felt I got a really good deal. Granted, it turned out neither one worked and the flyback on the Pole Position monitor was shot... but still, I felt, personally, that I got a good deal.
Now, that's me. I'm far from Boy Scout level... but I make sure I don't steer myself into Douche territory. I've heard some crazy stories, and there are some serious sharks out there, so you just have to make sure you cover your back. As mentioned before, make sure you know what any machine you sell to a collector is worth... and... this is not to pick on any specific group or anything... but you REALLY need to make sure you have all your bases covered with pinball guys. They don't get too many good deals, their machines cost a bit more than most of our (arcade guys) machines cost, and they have to worry about lower production numbers... and as such they've developed some weird methods of getting what they want.
I just picked up a Ms. Pac-Man mini for $100 yesterday... the lady asked what they would normally sell for... I told her I wasn't going to be selling it, but then I told her what I would expect to see one go for at an auction and what she might've been able to get on CL (assuming someone REALLY wanted it). Needless to say both figures were WELL over $100.. actually several hundred over. She just smiled and said, "Well, it's yours now."
I've had this happen several times... If asked, I'll always tell the seller what it's worth on average. If they decide to NOT sell it after I tell them, that's their call, but I really could never sleep with myself at night if I openly went out of my way to take advantage of someone.
If they don't ask... I just pay, load, and leave. I mean, I'm not going to go out of my way to make something potentially more expensive for me. There are a few exceptions... I picked up a Galaga and Pole Position from a guy at $100 for both. I saved his address and sent him a check a few days later for some extra money just because I felt I got a really good deal. Granted, it turned out neither one worked and the flyback on the Pole Position monitor was shot... but still, I felt, personally, that I got a good deal.
Now, that's me. I'm far from Boy Scout level... but I make sure I don't steer myself into Douche territory. I've heard some crazy stories, and there are some serious sharks out there, so you just have to make sure you cover your back. As mentioned before, make sure you know what any machine you sell to a collector is worth... and... this is not to pick on any specific group or anything... but you REALLY need to make sure you have all your bases covered with pinball guys. They don't get too many good deals, their machines cost a bit more than most of our (arcade guys) machines cost, and they have to worry about lower production numbers... and as such they've developed some weird methods of getting what they want.
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WadeLanham
Well-known member
No doubt. The guy ripped him off, plain and simple. Dirtbag move, when he was looking for help.
I can say that among our local collectors, none would have done that, they would have helped out by finding a buyer or helping fix the game, etc. But we have an open and honest group of guys. Plenty of great deals have been handed off to others who wanted a particular game more, or wanted to buy a group to resell.
I disagree with Shardian's comment about not doing business among family and friends. There are many people whose main income deals heavily with word of mouth, selling items (insurance, homes, cars, etc.), and they manage not to alienate their friends and family.
I've also bought and sold among a lot of game collectors (most of my buys/sells, actually), and bought/sold games among real friends, and never had a problem. There's really no reason for it to be a problem. Don't screw anyone over, and don't give anyone a slamming deal that you might regret (esp if they decide to flip it), and you'll be fine. Just be fair.
Wade
ChadTower
Active member
That's the thing - both parties have to be reasonable. Sadly, and especially when dealing with family, a lot of people are far from reasonable. I will only deal with family if it is in an area that person is very familiar with. I'll sell a car to a family member who knows cars. I'll sell a computer to a family member who knows computers. I will not sell a car to a cousin who knows nothing about cars as I am not willing to deal with the family tension should the timing belt snap 5 months later and said cousin expects me to pay for repairs. Or someone who has bought a computer from me, stacked it with virus and malware, and tells everyone I sold them a piece of crap. Yes, both scenarios are from personal experience.
I go out of my way to be fully forthright when selling to the point of screwing myself a little bit sometimes. Unfortunately even that isn't enough with some buyers as they expect something for nearly nothing because "it is family".
No, I have never received something for nearly nothing from family, either, so it's not a "well we do it for you" situation.
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