EM Help request!

scottsmith

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Ok folks - plea for assistance here...I am stumped and a newb at EM's.

I have a late 70s Williams. Here is what I can get out of it:

Powers on fine
Credit button does nothing
Credit unit has credits on it

25c relay will add a credit to the credit unit

Here is how I can get a game to start:
Manually activate the ball count unit reset solenoid
Manually activate the reset relay and the score wheels will reset and the relay bank will reset (but that's it)
Manually trip the game over relay to start a game

It will play through 3/5 balls just fine and go into game over when the last ball is played. Bonus units work, alternating relays seem to work. Game play seems pretty normal. Score reels work fine.

I cannot add any more players.

The credit button does nothing at any point before/during/after the game.

The credit wheel does not decrement.

I have rebuilt all of the steppers in the game (disassemble/clean), cleaned all relay contacts, adjusted relay contacts per the manual/schematic. All of that seems to be good unless I missed something.

One other issue: the game has no coin mechanisms. They were taken out along with that wiring. There is some funky wiring with a diode around the coin mech select pins. So...there is no coin lockout, no coin switches that might need to be open for a game to start, etc.

Please advise O great and powerful EM Wizards!!!!

Thanks -

-Scott

P.S. - I am posting this msg in other groups as well looking for some help!
 
Ok folks - plea for assistance here...I am stumped and a newb at EM's.

I have a late 70s Williams. Here is what I can get out of it:

Powers on fine
Credit button does nothing
Credit unit has credits on it

25c relay will add a credit to the credit unit

Here is how I can get a game to start:
Manually activate the ball count unit reset solenoid
Manually activate the reset relay and the score wheels will reset and the relay bank will reset (but that's it)
Manually trip the game over relay to start a game

It will play through 3/5 balls just fine and go into game over when the last ball is played. Bonus units work, alternating relays seem to work. Game play seems pretty normal. Score reels work fine.

I cannot add any more players.

The credit button does nothing at any point before/during/after the game.

The credit wheel does not decrement.

I have rebuilt all of the steppers in the game (disassemble/clean), cleaned all relay contacts, adjusted relay contacts per the manual/schematic. All of that seems to be good unless I missed something.

One other issue: the game has no coin mechanisms. They were taken out along with that wiring. There is some funky wiring with a diode around the coin mech select pins. So...there is no coin lockout, no coin switches that might need to be open for a game to start, etc.

Please advise O great and powerful EM Wizards!!!!

Thanks -

-Scott

P.S. - I am posting this msg in other groups as well looking for some help!

I'm not sure there's enough EM heads here to answer this one, but would appreciate if you post the solution once you get it. I only have a week's worth of experience with my EM, and it's only a single player...lots less complicated.
 
Scott,

It sounds to me like you will need a schematic of your game. You most likely have a switch stack that needs to be properly adjusted.

The fact that your coin mechs are gone is going to make this a tougher fix.

I recommend that you step through the Start-Up Sequence and make sure the solenoids mentioned in the sequence fire. If they do not, you need to examine them individually.

Here is the Williams Start Up Sequence (courtesy of www.pinrepair.com )


Williams Start-Up Sequence.
  1. When the start button is pressed, the credit unit is decremented. This is done through the credit unit zero position switch and the 2nd coin relay (and the ball count zero position switch).
  2. The end of stroke (EOS) switch on the credit unit decrement coil will energize the coin relay.
  3. The coin relay will trip the game over relay.
  4. The coin relay will energize the reset relay. The score motor will run.
  5. The reset relay will energize the ball count unit reset, through the score motor.
  6. The reset relay energizes the 2nd coin relay latch and game over relay latch coils.
  7. The reset relay will energize the score reset relays, through the score motor.
  8. The score reel reset relays will zero the score reels, through the score motor. The score motor will continue to activate the score reset relays until all the score reels reach the zero position.
  9. The reset relay activates the bonus unit coil until the bonus unit zero position switch is activated.
  10. When the bonus relay drops out, the outhole relay is energized through a different bonus unit zero switch and score motor switch.
  11. The outhole relay will run the score motor. The bonus unit will step up once. The ball will be kicked to the shooter lane.
Good Luck!

Marcus
 
For us EM guys and gals. www.pinrepair.com is my bible. Two area's of concern and a comment about a third.

First the door wires (since you have no mechanisms). Are the correct wires tied together? When the coin drops it's a make or break switch so. One wire shouldn't be tied into the group of three. Someone before you lost patients with the set up and removed both or to use in another game.

Next did you tear down the score motor? If so very easy upon re-assembling to mess up switch gap. 1.5 months of grief on my Target Alpha because of that reason alone.

My comment is related to the score reels. If you cleaned them part of restoring the game and soldered nothing that could be a problem. WMS is infamous in this era for crappy soldering. If you've not done so tug lightly on those switch wires.

Is your credit unit free play switch contacts cleaned and set correctly?

Schematics may be in order but I'd walk through these things first.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Hey guys -

I do have a schematic and have been trying to figure it all out. Not sure I am sure of which wires should be tied together. I can attach photos if that would help. I did not tear the score motor down completely, but cleaned all contacts and verified the switch positions from the schematic (M&B/NO/NC).

I did check all of the solder connections on the reels (and on other coils and relays) and did not see anything else that looked suspicious. I will check them out again, but they do all operate correctly, and they zero correctly when I trip the reset relay. When I first got the game, there was no scoring at all.

Credit unit was cleaned and restored. I have the contacts set as described on Clay's site. I am not sure if that is correct though... The photos on his site show two switches on the wheel itself and mine has three (two are operated by one pin in parallel and the other would operate by a second pin. The credit increment relay EOS seems to be ok.

I also noticed in the startup seq that in step two the credit DECREMENT EOS should trigger another relay...but my decrement coil does not have an EOS.

Does that help?

-Scott
 
Hey Marcus -

It is actually a 4-player Prospector (Sonic). All of the electricals are Williams parts, so I just refer to it as such.

Thanks -

-scott
 
Scott

After all of this I keep going back to the coin door wires for the simple fact you gave to manually start this game. If it's set to free play and you can't hit the start button and increment the credit unit.

A pic of the wires with that diode would be interesting...
 
Here you go...

See what you think. Here are a few pics with disconnected wires. The first two are of the area where the diode is located. The third is of three wires which were not connected in the bundle that comes around between the score motor and the coin selection jones connectors on the front of the mech board.

Thanks -

-scott
 

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PROGRESS!!!

Found my problem with the credit switch - it was a switch in the reset relay that fed the credit switch (eventually). Made that adjustment and now the credit button will decrement and the coin relay and credit relay activate.

Now, in the next step of the startup sequence, the coin relay is supposed to energize the reset relay among other things. That is where everything stops now.

Well, at least I have an operational credit button. Oh...and the player and ball count units now step correctly through a single or multi-player game. At the end of Player 4's fifth ball, the game goes into game over.

Pressing the credit button at this point simply causes the coin unit to advance and the coin relay and credit relay to energize...no further reset occurs.

Thanks as always!

-Scott
 
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