EM Cleopatra help

BubbaK

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I've got an EM version of Cleopatra I want to get running. Game has been sitting for a long time. Its pretty well beat up, but for sentimental reasons want to make it playable. I've never messed with an EM game before and am a bit intimidated so far. The playfield seems to work.. needs a lot of cleaning and probably some lubrication.

The first issue I need some help with is the backbox...

I have no lights at all. I put a few fresh bulbs in just to see and get nothing. I manually moved the score reels and on coin up they do reset, but they don't adjust with game play. The score reels move, but are a bit sticky. Will need to clean and lube them as well. The score relay moves by hand, but doesn't change the scores. I'm not sure what voltages should be going through the system. All the fuses I can find test good.
 
For the lights problem, check all the fuses in the bottom cabinet near the coinbox area. EM games have seperate fuses for the lighting circuits. One fuse for the playfield lights and one fuse for the backbox lights.

For scoring problems, check the stand up switches on the playfield for a stuck one (stuck closed).
 
Follow the wiring harness off the playfield down into the cabinet, there will be a big plug so the playfield can be disconnected. Take those plugs loose, and clean the pins, if they're corroded it'll make it so the lights don't work because the voltage isn't getting through. With the game on you can probably wiggle the plug and get them to light up to test that.
 
Thanks.. I've pulled the connectors off in the back box and cleaned them up. I don't think I did a great job, but its much better than it was. The fuses are good. I started poking around with my meter and I'm getting weird voltages.. I'm going to study the diagram a bit more and hopefully its something simple. Playfield lights up, so the transformer should be good for 6v. I think there is some backfeed on the light for the backbox.. With the fuse disconnected, I got 8v on the load side of the fuse and the line side was showing 3v. Something isn't making sense.
 
This may be a problem that is difficult to find, but easy to fix. It really sounds like 1 or more wires is not making solid connection, somewhere (jones plug, broken wire, etc).

Try to clean the plugs in the bottom of the cabinet also, not only the backbox.

Also do you have a copy of the schematic?

It sounds like you are able to coin up and start a game just fine, and go into gameplay, is this correct?

-Pat
 
Thanks for the reply.. Sometimes when you jump in too deep, you need to take a break and walk away. I tried working on too many issues at one time. Being my first EM, I really didn't know where to start, so I started in the middle and that was a bad thing.

I was able to get the back box lights going. It was a combination of a bad fuse and how I was checking voltage. Apparently I checked the continuity of the fuse with the machine plugged in and the fuse in the holder. First mistakes. Then, I put my meter on the wrong tap to measure the 6v. Since then I just started cleaning and inspecting all of the contacts for the relays, pf switches and cams.. I'm almost done with that. I found 2 coils that were very toasty, so they are getting replaced as well. I've got to clean, check and adjust the BX relay tonight.
 
Good deal. I'm glad you got it worked out.

Some things to remember, is you really can't rule out anything by just checking continuity between wires. Unfortunately the game is mostly wired AC which goes through the transformer and you get erroneous readings. The best thing to do to find a break in a wire is to get a set of jumper clips and jumper across the 2 points you're concerned about. If it works than you have a break in that wire somewhere, if it doesn't still then move along to the next 2 points.

If you need any other help just let us know. I actually like the EM version of the game better than the solid state. However, I am partial to EMs tho.

Good luck on the BX relay. That scares off a lot of people. :)

-Pat

Thanks for the reply.. Sometimes when you jump in too deep, you need to take a break and walk away. I tried working on too many issues at one time. Being my first EM, I really didn't know where to start, so I started in the middle and that was a bad thing.

I was able to get the back box lights going. It was a combination of a bad fuse and how I was checking voltage. Apparently I checked the continuity of the fuse with the machine plugged in and the fuse in the holder. First mistakes. Then, I put my meter on the wrong tap to measure the 6v. Since then I just started cleaning and inspecting all of the contacts for the relays, pf switches and cams.. I'm almost done with that. I found 2 coils that were very toasty, so they are getting replaced as well. I've got to clean, check and adjust the BX relay tonight.
 
Thanks Pat.. I left the AX/BX relays for basically last.. I've been reading up on them and I think I got it. The AX relay actually snapped in both directions nicely.. I just cleaned the contacts and put it back. The BX relay is hanging up a bit. I adjusted the contacts to put some more tension and now it opens and closes nicely. I din't get much time to play last night, so tonight I'll inspect the switches for contact then call it done. The last hurdle is going to be the score motor.. Not looking forward to cleaning and checking that. Once that is done, I'll put the machine back together and give it a test.

One thing I noticed when I was originally trying the game - The game appeared to be on free play. Now a game never ended after a ball drain, so not sure if it was relay related or if something was hacked along the way. From what I remember, this game was always on free play.
 
Thanks Pat.. I left the AX/BX relays for basically last.. I've been reading up on them and I think I got it. The AX relay actually snapped in both directions nicely.. I just cleaned the contacts and put it back. The BX relay is hanging up a bit. I adjusted the contacts to put some more tension and now it opens and closes nicely. I din't get much time to play last night, so tonight I'll inspect the switches for contact then call it done. The last hurdle is going to be the score motor.. Not looking forward to cleaning and checking that. Once that is done, I'll put the machine back together and give it a test.

One thing I noticed when I was originally trying the game - The game appeared to be on free play. Now a game never ended after a ball drain, so not sure if it was relay related or if something was hacked along the way. From what I remember, this game was always on free play.

The multiplayers have "Player Units". It's the big mess in the backbox with the cams and lot of stacks of switches connected to it. I've luckily never had to mess with one, but this is most likely why the game is never going into game over. There is probably a switch or 2 in the player unit that is dirty or misadjusted. This is where the schematic comes in handy.

The score motor you usually never need to do anything with. If you can turn it by hand, and it continues through its rotation, it's usually ok. The switches around it may be dirty or out of adjustment, but just look for a problem, instead of cleaning / adjusting all switches. You can lubricate the felt needle which is what I usually do. Look here for info: ("http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor"). The whole page is a very good read if you want to make your EM work like a charm. Once you get them working, and play them about once a month, you really should never have another issue with any switches on the game as they are designed to clean themselves while you play the game.

-Pat
 
One other question I had.. On the bonus stepper thats mounted on the playfield, there are 2 sets of contacts. One set has a wire between it and the other set seems to have had a jumper at one point, but it appears to have broken off. Should there be a wire between this other set of contacts?
 

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One other question I had.. On the bonus stepper thats mounted on the playfield, there are 2 sets of contacts. One set has a wire between it and the other set seems to have had a jumper at one point, but it appears to have broken off. Should there be a wire between this other set of contacts?

I'm not sure, but is there something wrong with the bonus? I would guess without a wire that is supposed to be there, there would be a major issue with it, like not working at all.

-Pat
 
I'm new to pins and really new to EMs, the one rule I was told to follow was to avoid lubrication on anything but that which specifically needs it. Bakelite parts don't. Nylon on nylon parts don't.

If there *is* lube in things like relays and what, its probably some that needs to be taken out. Remove and clean.

Good luck getting it back up!
 
I'm new to EM games as well. From everything I've read, no lubrication, no contact cleaner. I had a few shafts on some of the cams that were a bit sticky or slow moving that I used a needle oiler and put a small drop of oil and worked it in. Here is a really good link for info getting your feet wet in EM pinballs. I was overwhelmed when I first started looking into my machine and after going through that link, it made a lot more sense.

http://www.pinrepair.com/em
 
I'm not sure, but is there something wrong with the bonus? I would guess without a wire that is supposed to be there, there would be a major issue with it, like not working at all.

-Pat

I'm not sure if there is an issue with the bonus or not, but I would imagine it wouldn't work properly without the wire. I did put a jumper on it temporarily as I was doing my initial test. There is a whole group of wires that wouldn't be getting switched if the jumper isn't there. Being new to pins and specifically EM's, I'm not sure how the bonus is supposed to work yet. When I was racking up the scores by pushing buttons, the bonus reel stayed on 0. Looking at my circuit diagram, the ball return switch is in the same circuit as the bonus relay. Might be onto something..
 
I'm not sure if there is an issue with the bonus or not, but I would imagine it wouldn't work properly without the wire. I did put a jumper on it temporarily as I was doing my initial test. There is a whole group of wires that wouldn't be getting switched if the jumper isn't there. Being new to pins and specifically EM's, I'm not sure how the bonus is supposed to work yet. When I was racking up the scores by pushing buttons, the bonus reel stayed on 0. Looking at my circuit diagram, the ball return switch is in the same circuit as the bonus relay. Might be onto something..

It's the weird bonus system that Royal Flush/Card Whiz used also. I just went to look to see if I have the schematic, and I don't.

There are 5 colors, and when you achieve both objectives of one color, you light up the bonus for that color. When you lose the ball, it cycles through all 5 colors, and adds to the score how many color objectives you have completed.

For instance, there are 10 "steps" on the unit. If you have both reds completed, it will go through all 10 steps, and then award you 2 "bonuses" (are they 1000 each?) when it gets to the red step "section", and then continues on through the rest of the colors checking.

-Pat
 
I'm new to EM games as well. From everything I've read, no lubrication, no contact cleaner. I had a few shafts on some of the cams that were a bit sticky or slow moving that I used a needle oiler and put a small drop of oil and worked it in. Here is a really good link for info getting your feet wet in EM pinballs. I was overwhelmed when I first started looking into my machine and after going through that link, it made a lot more sense.

http://www.pinrepair.com/em

The only spots lubrication is ok to use, and it's a particular type of lubricant, is, the 3 in 1 oil on the felt needle of the score motor, and then teflon lubricant on the bakelite disc pads and fingers that touch the pads on the stepper units.

Everything else, if you want to make it slick, just metal polish the plungers, and metal to metal pieces.

Instead of using contact cleaner, use a small points file (EMs only, if you use these on solid state games, you will ruin the switches), or if you want to get fancy, get a dremel tool with a wire brush attachment to clean the switches.

-Pat
 
It's the weird bonus system that Royal Flush/Card Whiz used also. I just went to look to see if I have the schematic, and I don't.

There are 5 colors, and when you achieve both objectives of one color, you light up the bonus for that color. When you lose the ball, it cycles through all 5 colors, and adds to the score how many color objectives you have completed.

For instance, there are 10 "steps" on the unit. If you have both reds completed, it will go through all 10 steps, and then award you 2 "bonuses" (are they 1000 each?) when it gets to the red step "section", and then continues on through the rest of the colors checking.

-Pat

Thanks.. That makes sense how it operates. I noticed a few things with the bonus stepper last night that I fixed. The jumper I put on was apparently too heavy and the shoe was not seated on the contact points. I soldered a new wire and took care of that. I also adjusted the cam so the shoes make better contact with the rivets. Following the wiring diagram, there is a make/break switch on the bonus unit that is tied into the ball return switch. Cleaned and adjusted that and now my ball return switch works. I'm starting to understand the smaller circuits in the diagram a bit. The ball kicker wasn't loading the ball into the lane after the switch was hit. I played around with the BX relay a bit and now have the kicker working, but only on balls 2-5. On game start up, its not kicking the 1st ball into the lane. This is where I get lost on the diagram trying to figure out the initial game start circuit. I have also only tried loading a 1 player game so far. Figured I'd get player 1 working properly before moving on.

I'm currently working with the original game schematic. I think I'm going to take it somewhere and get it copied. From opening and folding it back up, I'm starting to damage the folds.
 
Thanks.. That makes sense how it operates. I noticed a few things with the bonus stepper last night that I fixed. The jumper I put on was apparently too heavy and the shoe was not seated on the contact points. I soldered a new wire and took care of that. I also adjusted the cam so the shoes make better contact with the rivets. Following the wiring diagram, there is a make/break switch on the bonus unit that is tied into the ball return switch. Cleaned and adjusted that and now my ball return switch works. I'm starting to understand the smaller circuits in the diagram a bit. The ball kicker wasn't loading the ball into the lane after the switch was hit. I played around with the BX relay a bit and now have the kicker working, but only on balls 2-5. On game start up, its not kicking the 1st ball into the lane. This is where I get lost on the diagram trying to figure out the initial game start circuit. I have also only tried loading a 1 player game so far. Figured I'd get player 1 working properly before moving on.

I'm currently working with the original game schematic. I think I'm going to take it somewhere and get it copied. From opening and folding it back up, I'm starting to damage the folds.

Go to: ("http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start") and then follow it down to: 1975-1978 Gottlieb Start-Up Sequence. Multi-player games with Ax/Bx relays.

This will give you the startup sequence and whats happening all the way up to serving the ball in the shooter lane.

-Pat
 
Thanks.. I'm going to take a look at that. I've learned a lot from that whole article already. I was looking through the manual for the game and it gives a really good description down to relays and contact points for the initial sequence. between the 2, I should be able to get this figured out..
 
Thanks.. That makes sense how it operates. I noticed a few things with the bonus stepper last night that I fixed. The jumper I put on was apparently too heavy and the shoe was not seated on the contact points. I soldered a new wire and took care of that. I also adjusted the cam so the shoes make better contact with the rivets. Following the wiring diagram, there is a make/break switch on the bonus unit that is tied into the ball return switch. Cleaned and adjusted that and now my ball return switch works. I'm starting to understand the smaller circuits in the diagram a bit. The ball kicker wasn't loading the ball into the lane after the switch was hit. I played around with the BX relay a bit and now have the kicker working, but only on balls 2-5. On game start up, its not kicking the 1st ball into the lane. This is where I get lost on the diagram trying to figure out the initial game start circuit. I have also only tried loading a 1 player game so far. Figured I'd get player 1 working properly before moving on.

I'm currently working with the original game schematic. I think I'm going to take it somewhere and get it copied. From opening and folding it back up, I'm starting to damage the folds.

Forgot one other thing.

My local Office Depot (I think Staples offers this also) has a "blueprint engineering" special copy rate. So you can copy the entire schematic full size for like a dollar or two, instead of the usual $12-$15 or whatever they charge.

They've never given me flack for copying a schematic, because they described it as: #1 I own the game, and #2 I own the original schematic, so I'm ok making a "working" copy of the original schematic that I have the game for. You just can't distribute it yourself. I try to keep the originals "original" and try as much as I can to take care of them, and then use my copies to work on the game with. I always support Steve at Pinball Resource with buying his schematics for any game I have that doesn't have one.

-Pat
 
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