Does FREE PLAY really change anything?

jow

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Is there a reason if someone wants to submit a score with an in home game they HAVE to take the game off free play and drop a quarter into it before starting? Does putting a game on FREE PLAY really change anything? I never understood this? I know that BITD these people were playing these games in public places and it cost them a quarter, but if nothing changes with games on FP why the hell would you make people with games in home do this? Am I missing something?
 
The Game Nazis over at TG just want to maintain control Jow. :) I don't know, can you tell me why you shouldn't be able to use a Braze kit either? Because it's a hack, okay. Why not the Braze kit for Super Missile Attack then? The "original" was a hack, so a hack is okay but a hack of a hack is not?
 
The only reason I can think of is using a quarter instead of free play prevents cheating on games where adding a 2nd credit gives you more health or time in a game.
 
The only reason I can think of is using a quarter instead of free play prevents cheating on games where adding a 2nd credit gives you more health or time in a game.

+1 I felt the same way about this. BITD it meant that you had to perform your best, knowing that your 25cents was at stake! :scared: "You must focus, Daniel-San!"
 
I totally agree... free play changes everything.

Kids come over and they say... I don't get it... what do I do?
Length of play per unit was everything BITD. Now they view it as how my they play per $50-60.

That's why people love MMOs and play 40 hours a week at $10-20 a month.
 
I know the reason on DK is that the free play/high-score kit replaces the roms entirely and it's hard to verify gameplay is the same. A lot of people don't realize that the free-play kit does that. You're supposed to only use an original board so that they can verify an even playing field.
 
You're supposed to only use an original board so that they can verify an even playing field.

What if you are using an original board on free play? The games where you can add credits for health/etc, I understand. Any other game where its one coin, one play, I don't see why you cant just press start.
 
If they had any real verification expertise then they could verify that there were no cheats or mods added to the actual game code but since they are completely ignorant of any kind of real verification methods they make what rules they think will prevent cheating. Honestly if you think you have to cheat to get WR on a 30 year old arcade game they you would have to be the most pathetic soul on the planet. :rolleyes:

I know the reason on DK is that the free play/high-score kit replaces the roms entirely and it's hard to verify gameplay is the same. A lot of people don't realize that the free-play kit does that. You're supposed to only use an original board so that they can verify an even playing field.
 
^ Seriously. It's not THAT HARD to tell if someone cheated or not by watching gameplay. The very fact you have to show the boards and power it up each time is absurd enough... if there's anything obviously changed or hacked, it will show in gameplay, not through a quick shot of the back of the cabinet. These are arcade games, not GameBoy games, you can't just take a GameShark to it and get unlimited lives. And if you do, it'll show up in the footage. It's no wonder so many games have no records or crappy records, nobody wants to bother to make their 30-minute-long tour of the machine intro every time they play.
 
If they had any real verification expertise then they could verify that there were no cheats or mods added to the actual game code but since they are completely ignorant of any kind of real verification methods they make what rules they think will prevent cheating. Honestly if you think you have to cheat to get WR on a 30 year old arcade game they you would have to be the most pathetic soul on the planet. :rolleyes:

They also require the original power supply which totally baffles me.
 
Dropping in a quarter or only using the original power supply is the least of their concerns.

Right now IMO they have such serious credibility issues on some of their scores that I find it absolutely hilarious that they would be so anal about such things when they have issues like "world record holders" that 20 years after the fact cough up someone to verify their games from 20 years ago and "world record holders" that when pressed with modern verification techniques can only reproduce 1/6th of their "world record scores".

Phooey on TG. Clean up your stinking mess; then come talk to me about silly rules like this.
 
Is there a reason if someone wants to submit a score with an in home game they HAVE to take the game off free play and drop a quarter into it before starting? Does putting a game on FREE PLAY really change anything? I never understood this? I know that BITD these people were playing these games in public places and it cost them a quarter, but if nothing changes with games on FP why the hell would you make people with games in home do this? Am I missing something?

Some games, yes....
 
Yeah, I had a world record score on Ms. Pac but they said it wasn't valid because I had reproduction side art on the cabinet, wtf? (TONGUE IN CHEEK)
 
They also require the original power supply which totally baffles me.

Really? Or are you just making that up? That really makes NO sense. Original power supply, monitor, cabinet, etc should be of no importance - original game boards, however, are a good rule.

I understand the freeplay thing from the perspective that some games behave differently when on free play. For example, Gorf gives you six ships on free play. In theory, a game COULD have been programmed to be easier on free play - since it wouldn't really matter how long you played it for (no change in profit on a free to play game). They want to ensure that everyone is playing on a level playing field, and one coin one play is really the standard, normal way these games were meant to be played.

But, frankly, if you really want to cheat - you can cheat. How hard is it to hack the game code to change variables to either make the game more predictable, or to award more points than usual? For example, if you were to change the code in Dig Dug so that you're awarded double the usual amount of points for each section of dirt you dig... might not be noticed, and such a hack would be trivial. And a quick pan-through of the inside of the game isn't going to notice one EPROM that was replaced. You'd have to have someone come to your house to look for gooey residue on the circuit boards...

EVB said:
Honestly if you think you have to cheat to get WR on a 30 year old arcade game they you would have to be the most pathetic soul on the planet.

Agreed.

Basically, Twin Galaxies tries to make a level playing field for all. Some things make sense, others don't. Wether you agree with it or not doesn't matter - if you don't like it, don't try to submit high scores.

-Ian
 
If TG was serious about legit scores, they would pretty much throw out every and all high scores from the 80's and 90's and most of them from the 21st century. The rules have changed over the years making the scores bogus.
 
If TG was serious about legit scores, they would pretty much throw out every and all high scores from the 80's and 90's and most of them from the 21st century. The rules have changed over the years making the scores bogus.

+1. And the fact they didn't keep track of settings or ROM versions back then.

Ok, as for Free Play settings...

Having written a few free play hacks myself, the code does, logically, have to take different paths when dealing with free play. I mean, the code basically looks something like this:

//entering code that checks if a person is dropping in a quarter during game play
Check input for dip settings
If dips set to free play, jump to END
check input for credit
Credit not triggered, jump to end
.
.
<code for coin actually dropped in>
.
.
END

So, in practice, maybe the non-free-play sequence executes like two more lines of assembly.

For all practical purposes, I don't see this making a difference, but TG is trying to make the apples to apples comparision as close as possible.
 
Dropping in a quarter or only using the original power supply is the least of their concerns.

Right now IMO they have such serious credibility issues on some of their scores that I find it absolutely hilarious that they would be so anal about such things when they have issues like "world record holders" that 20 years after the fact cough up someone to verify their games from 20 years ago and "world record holders" that when pressed with modern verification techniques can only reproduce 1/6th of their "world record scores".

Phooey on TG. Clean up your stinking mess; then come talk to me about silly rules like this.


cough...Spy Hunter... cough :D
 
I'd be pretty pissed if I had spend say 3 days on the Defender record back in the 80's and those clowns wiped the slate clean so I have to totally disagree with this. On that note I agree that their reputation is highly questionable.

If TG was serious about legit scores, they would pretty much throw out every and all high scores from the 80's and 90's and most of them from the 21st century. The rules have changed over the years making the scores bogus.
 
They also require the original power supply which totally baffles me.

Really? Or are you just making that up?

This is an excerpt from the Twin Galaxies recording rules for Donkey Kong . . .

The following outlines step-by-step instructions on how to properly record the arcade machine, internal components, and gameplay for submitting a Donkey Kong arcade recording. All aspects must be included on your recording; else your submission may be subject to disqualification. These guidelines are based on using a full-sized upright version of the Nintendo arcade game Donkey Kong. If you intend to play on a cocktail machine or cabaret (or mini) style machine, please contact Twin Galaxies before you being recording your game.

IMPORTANT - The Donkey Kong arcade machine must remain in the frame of view of the camera recording it at all times. The camera must never be pointed elsewhere, it must be pointed at and recording the game machine at all times.



• Begin with the arcade game powered OFF. Introduce yourself to the camera and state the date and time. Record a walk-around of the game machine, showing all sides of the game, paying particular attention to showing that there are no external wires or cords anywhere going into or out of the arcade machine with the exception of the power cord.

• Bring the camera around to the back of the machine and open up the back door, revealing the interior of the machine.

• Focus your camera on the printed circuit board (PCB) installed and connected to the machine. Record a brief overview of the PCB, paying particular attention to showing the part number on the PCB (beginning with "TKG4").

• Show the dipswitch bank, and that it corresponds to the correct settings: SW 1 – SW 7 OFF, SW 8 – ON.

• Close the back door of the game and secure it with the lock, or with screws (as are commonly used). The back door of the machine must now remain closed throughout the entire gameplay, until the game being recorded has finished, and further interior recording will then be required.

• Power on the game machine at this point, recording the flip of the switch and the resulting familiar start up sounds should be heard on camera.

• Bring the camera around to the front of the machine, and setup the camera on a tripod or stable platform, to record the game screen. Zoom in appropriately to ensure that the most amount of the gameplay on screen can be shown, including the score. The camera will now stay in this position for the duration of gameplay.

• The monitor should now be suitably warmed up to the point where the game can be seen running on the monitor. Also ensure that the game sounds can be heard and recorded.

• Once the monitor has properly warmed up… keep the camera in it's position recording the game screen, and turn OFF the power to the game briefly and then back ON again fairly quickly. This will allow your camera to view and record the boot-up "garbage" screen as the game program starts and then shows the attract mode.

• Allow the attract mode to run so that the camera can record the title screen, which must show "Copyright 1981 Nintendo of America", as well as the high score table which must show the default populated scores with 7650 in first place.

• At this point you have completed all necessary pre-verifications; you may add a credit and begin playing. Only a 1-player game is allowed for submitting your score to Twin Galaxies. If you have a bad game and want to start over, you may do so at any time, however you must allow the game to end normally. You may not power-cycle the machine to obtain a quick reset. If you want to restart… kill off your men, let the game finish, enter your initials, allow the attract mode to display the title screen and high score table once more, and then you may add a credit, and begin playing another game. You may play as many games as you want on the recording, or as many games as the recording can hold, however there may be NO break in recording and the game's power must remain on at all times.

• Once you have finished playing entirely, enter in your initials and zoom in on your score allowing the camera to adequately show the score, ensuring that it is readable on the recording. Also show the high score table one last time.

• Adjust the camera to view a wide image of the game's control panel. Open the coin door and unlatch the control panel.

• Flip the control panel upside down to record the underside of it. You may operate the camera manually, allowing you to zoom in on details of the control panel. Show the single bundle of wires going to the control panel. While moving the joystick in a SLOW circular motion, record the underside of the joystick showing the restrictor plate in action as well as the 4-direction actuators.

• The joystick itself MUST be an original stock 4-way Donkey Kong arcade joystick, or a replacement 4-way joystick of exact size and shape as the original Donkey Kong arcade game joystick.

• Reinstall and latch the control panel back into place.

• Return the camera to a view of the front of the game machine as a whole and add in two credits, and hit the 2-player start button. Show the start of the two-player game, and control the player to show that the control panel has been reinstalled correctly. Allow the first player to be killed and the show the start of the second player's game, and control the player once more to ensure that the control panel is still connected and working properly.

• While leaving this 2-player game running, resume manual control of the camera and while ensuring that the game machine never leaves the camera's view, go around to the back of the game machine and open up the back door.

• Without touching or handling anything inside the machine, record the PCB with the game's power still on, and the two-player game running, allowing the game sounds to be heard. Once again focus your attention on the still connected PCB, showing the part number on the board.

• At this point, turn the game machine's power off. You will now begin recording a further in-depth view of the game's internal components.

• The power supply must be an original Donkey Kong arcade machine power supply; please record the power supply showing the wires going into and coming out of it.

• Disconnect the printed circuit boards (PCBs) from the machine so that you can properly show all the components on the board with appropriate lighting.

• Record the PCB set itself, showing that it is a 2-board set (one is the CPU board, one is the VIDEO board), which should be interfaced together with 2 ribbon cables.

• Show the part numbers on both boards. They should begin with "TKG4". Please ensure that the part numbers on the boards are readable from the recording and that the part numbers match on both boards.

• Show the ROM chips on both boards. Each board has six (6) ROM chips. The ROM chips on the video board are located at : 7C, 7D, 7E, 7F, 3N, 3P. The ROM chips on the cpu board are located at : 5A, 5B, 5C, 5E, 3F, 3H. These ROM chips must be original Donkey Kong arcade game chips, which originally included label stickers on them indicating the TKG4 model, and the location of the chips' installation socket. Please record on camera any and all information written on either the ROM chips themselves, or the label stickers on the ROM chips.

• Show the dipswitch bank, located approximately near C10. The switch bank must correspond to the correct settings : SW 1 – SW 7 OFF, SW 8 – ON.

• Show the Z80 processor located on the CPU board at 7C. It must be labeled "780c", or "Z80".

• No adjustments or additions to the PCB set may be used. High score save kits, or any other hardware attached to the Z80 processor or anywhere else on the board or game is strictly prohibited.

• You may now end recording and submit your score to Twin Galaxies.


You need orginial power supply. Original roms with TKG4 stickers. I understand the ROMs to an extent. Which explains why you can't use the high-score kit, but the power supply thing is pretty weird.

The recording process is crazy. It's like "Lift up your left leg, rub your stomach, and pat your head. Now lift up your right leg and do the converse. Then reverse." They disqualify about half the people by making the thing so cofusing.
 
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