Do you give first to respond "rights"?

I've been trying to buy a Timber and in the last couple of months, three of them came up for sale on KLOV. The first one I wasn't fast enough on and I was second in line. Buyer #1 came through so I lost out. The second one I was the first to respond, agreed to the sellers price but shipping needed to be worked out. Seller just stopped answering my pm's (I didn't harass. Sent a PM about once a week or so) and a third came up for sale. I was also first to respond to this one and since seller #2 wasn't responding to my pm's, I started talks to buy the third one. The seller of the third machine gave me two days to decide on their terms so I took two days. When I told the seller I would agree to their terms they told me they sold the machine to someone else while they were waiting for me to answer. I then finally got an email from seller #2 telling me that they were no longer interested in selling their machine. I don't believe any laws were broken and no one was ever required to sell me thier game but I have to say this whole experience has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth about buying games through KLOV. But with a game like Timber, what are my other options? Right about now I'm thinking I'll never be able to purchase the game I want most even though I have the money sitting in the bank just waiting to be spent.

People who don't follow through on what they have agreed to suck!
 
But any one of you douchebags that thinks it's unethical for me to sell to a buddy or family member even when they were 2nd in line is a complete idiot. complete.

So, when someone disagrees with your lack of ethics, they are a "douchebag?" That seems to be a the most over-abused word in here. For some reason, I'm wondering if a lot of you are still in junior high school... By some of these posts, it certainly is seeming like it.

I don't know about you, but I personally check with family and friends first before I offer something for sale. That way, they won't be second in line or anything. Family and friends pass, I then offer the item for sale to the general public. I get a buyer for the item and a family or friend changes their mind, they then have to wait to see. I've never had a problem and people have mature enough to understand.

Chalk me up as a douchebag who is a complete idiot. I don't mind the idiotic, juvenile name calling... LMAO!!!

Bill
 
I know you guys don't really want to believe it's true, because it does seem to be absurd when you have these small transactions but I'm quoting you black letter law. I'm not just pulling rules out of the air and saying "legally" or "technically" in front of it to make it sound official.

A contract is "an agreement between two or more parties, [the] preliminary step in making of which is [an] offer by one and acceptance by other . . . upon legal considration." (Black's Law Dictionary)

An offer and acceptance alone isn't enough. Your own quote reads "the PRELIMINARY step..." of making a contract is offer and acceptance. On a forum, no agreement was ever reached unless the seller says "...It's yours." When the details and terms of a contract are ambiguous or omitted, there is no contract.

A post on the web of "FS: game part $50" is ambiguous. So really a FS ad is an invitation for offers, the potential buyer is making the offer, and the seller has to accept it for there to be any kind of contract.

Wade
 
So, when someone disagrees with your lack of ethics, they are a "douchebag?" That seems to be a the most over-abused word in here. For some reason, I'm wondering if a lot of you are still in junior high school... By some of these posts, it certainly is seeming like it.

I don't know about you, but I personally check with family and friends first before I offer something for sale. That way, they won't be second in line or anything. Family and friends pass, I then offer the item for sale to the general public. I get a buyer for the item and a family or friend changes their mind, they then have to wait to see. I've never had a problem and people have mature enough to understand.

Chalk me up as a douchebag who is a complete idiot. I don't mind the idiotic, juvenile name calling... LMAO!!!

Bill

So because you would offer things for sale to everyone you know prior to listing here, everyone else must as well? And I am so juvenile and you are so mature that you hang out and talk about video games??????????????
Well I have never had my "selling ethics" actually questioned. And, as I have stated before, (several times in this thread as a matter of fact) the first responder has always had the first chance to buy any item I had for sale. I am merely stating my right to sell to whomever I wish.
 
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Online or ?

online or on Craigs?
Craigs 1st responder IN PERSON with CASH...
online, I would go with 1st BUT payment required within X time..
and I am called anal for this, But I make ALL issues or problems known.
and make it clear It leaves my place to post office and out and insured WITH tracking.
And as described. If they think its a "risk" I do my damnedest to make everything CLEAR!!.. So their choice to buy or move out of the way of others..

I offered something for sale and got a few responses from people saying they'd take it at my asking price. I hadn't committed to anyone or taken payment from anyone. I decided to sell to someone that wasn't the first to respond, but someone I had dealt with before.

The first guy to respond was really upset about it, cuz "he was first".

What do you guys think? Do you think being first to respond saying you'll take it at the given price gives you any type of rights over anyone else that may respond? This is assuming you haven't paid anything or received any notice from the seller that he commits to selling it to you.

Obviously one of my mistakes was mentioning in one of the emails that he was the first to respond. I won't make that mistake again.
 
Jamburglar are you confused about offers and acceptance. PostIng a forsale ad is not an offer. An offer is made by the buyer not the seller. The seller accepts the offer. There is no way a buyer posting "pm sent" makes the seller bound in any way shape or form. Now if the seller accepts the BUYERS offer then yes there is a contract.
 
I usually give first rights to anyone who responds with a 24 hour time limit. After that, its down the list to the next reply.

The one caveat to that is that if I have a bunch of stuff and someone says they want an item (but have not paid for it) and someone after says they want it along with other items, I will give preference to the person buying more stuff. I do this for two reasons - my goal is to sell as much listed as possible and its way easier to ship one box to one location than several to several locations.

BTW - I love the comment someone made about people who respond that they want something but need to put funds in their PayPal account. I've had that one several times and its usually for stuff under $50.
 
I was the first to respond to a game recently (I think that's a first in itself). The day after I told them I wanted it and was planning to come get it, my wife needed emergency surgery, which knocked out any hope of getting the game that week. The seller was very understanding and held the game for me. I was able to pick it up this week (a week later).

So those of you who said you are only worried about the first cash in hand, you would have destroyed a golden opportunity for an innocent person like me who just has chronic bad luck.

My hat goes off to the patient man.
 
^^ That's kind of a misrepresentation of most people's opinion on here.

I usually sell to first person to respond, but I was just saying If I sell it to somebody else, that's just how it goes. If somebody emailed me, said they'd take it, then said their wife was in emergency surgery, I'd hold it for them for the week no problem.

All the legal stuff is laughable, in my opinion. When you're talking about things like pcb's and games that are less than a hundred bucks, you're not even going to get Judge Judy to take the case.
 
Yeah, I don't know who's making up all these crazy laws! I've seen Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. I know what the laws are! Unless you can prove youself at Thunderdome then there are no contracts! I can just walk into a store and piss on the floor and then be like "here's an analogy that's not really analogous to what I just did but I said "legally" in there so it's the law!" Who can legally prove me wrong?

Case closed.

You're being rediculous Jam Burglar. I know you don't want to admit it, and you want to keep quoting the law, but if somebody comes in my STORE (I own a store) I can tell them I dont' want to sell to them, please leave, and if they don't leave I can call the cops and make them leave.

Somebody can come in and say "I'll take this" and I can say "Fuck you!" and tell them to leave. Period.

There's no law stating that something offered for general sale has to be sold to anybody who wants to buy it. That's bullshit. Like I said in my original post about it, there's some laws regarding real estate transactions and such, but for what we're talking about, which again is ARCADE GAMES, there's no law making you sell anyting to anybody, even if you're offering it for sale. I could advertise something for $500 bucks, then tell people I changed my mind and don't want to sell it, or I only want to sell it to people named Mary, or I want two grand for it, and there isn't a court, or a laywer outside of YOU that is even going to do anything about it.

Case Closed
 
^^ That's kind of a misrepresentation of most people's opinion on here.

I usually sell to first person to respond, but I was just saying If I sell it to somebody else, that's just how it goes. If somebody emailed me, said they'd take it, then said their wife was in emergency surgery, I'd hold it for them for the week no problem.

All the legal stuff is laughable, in my opinion. When you're talking about things like pcb's and games that are less than a hundred bucks, you're not even going to get Judge Judy to take the case.


I hope you don't think I was firing on you good sir :D I was simply saying those who follow the "cash in hand first" (which are quite a large number of people in general, not necessarily just people here at KLOV) would have killed my most recent opportunity, and I'm simply glad it didn't go down that way.

I just wanted to make sure that my comment didn't come out like "yeah and d!cks like LyonsArcade would have brushed me off in a New York minute.." That wasn't my plan! :D
 
Jamburglar are you confused about offers and acceptance. PostIng a forsale ad is not an offer. An offer is made by the buyer not the seller. The seller accepts the offer. There is no way a buyer posting "pm sent" makes the seller bound in any way shape or form. Now if the seller accepts the BUYERS offer then yes there is a contract.

No, I'm not confused, I understand completely. But I think that, out of all of the posts going on in this thread, you come the closest to getting it right. The problem is we're dealing with complex subject matter and my caveats keep getting glossed over or ignored.

Usually, a "for sale" ad is not an offer, but an invitation to bargain. See Restatement (Second) of Contracts § 26, pp. 75-76 (1981); 1 Corbin on Contracts § 25, pp. 74-75 (1950). However, where the offer is clear, definite, and explicit, and leaves nothing open for negotiation, it constitutes an offer, acceptance of which will complete the contract. See Lefkowitz v. Great Minneapolis Surplus Store, Inc., 251 Minn. 188, 191, 86 N.W.2d 689, 691 (1957).See also Izadi v. Machado (Gus) Ford, Inc., 550 So.2d 1135, 1139 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1989); Osage Homestead, Inc. v. Sutphin, 657 S.W.2d 346, 351-52 (Mo. App. 1983); R.E. Crummer & Co. v. Nuveen, 147 F.2d 3, 5 (7th Cir. 1945); Oliver v. Henley, 21 S.W.2d 576, 578-79 (Tex. Civ. App. 1929).

Wade sort of gets this right in his last post but he got caught up in trying to parse language quoted from a US Supreme Court case and ended up getting on the wrong track. He ultimately hits on the right answer though, which is, usually, the initial "for sale" post is not going to constitute an offer because it is not clear enough, and leaves things open for negotiation. As he said, the ad is usually too ambigous to constitute an offer.

If you look at my very first post in this thread, I covered this. I said:
. . .Technically, if your post is worded in a way that constitutes a legal offer, and then someone e-mails you saying "I accept your offer" (or something to that effect) then you have a legally binding contract . . .

The thing is, you're unlikely to get that sort of clean transaction in the real world . . .

The reason these for sale posts are unlikely to be considered offers is because they often leave shipping and other essential terms open to negotiation (like Wade points out.) It has nothing to do with some principal that sellers can't make offers. That's fundamentally wrong. Both buyers and sellers can make offers.

Where things start to get sticky is when you see for sale post says something like "Joust PCB for sale, $50.00 shipped to anywhere in the 50 states, paypal only". That's pretty clear, definate, and explicit, and leaves nothing (material) open for negotiation. It's not uncommon to see that sort of post, and there's a damn good argument it's an offer. A post or PM saying "I'll take it, I'll pay you $50.00 as soon as you give me your paypal address) would be the acceptance. The consideration is the exchange of promises. Offer + acceptance + consideation = binding contract.

Again (and I don't know how many times I've said this now), this may be fairly interesting from a theoretical standpoint, but most posts aren't offers, they're merely invitations to bargain, and nobody is going to sue over $50 anyway. It doesn't really matter how the legalites break down. The better point (from my perspective) is that there's obviously a lot of people out there who have expectations that aren't being met, and whether those expectations are "right" or "wrong" buyers get pissed and then don't want to buy from certain people. It's a lot better to be clear from the get go so that people don't get the wrong idea.
 
You're being rediculous Jam Burglar.

h2o-salesman-mad-max-beyond-thunderdome-20080423045301247-000.jpg
 
On the same concept as "rediculous"...

riddickulous.jpg
 
^---- Enjoying this thread.

I am so juvenile and you are so mature that you hang out and talk about video games??????????????

No sleight intended to either party, but I though this was funny as hell. What kinds of dorks (myself included) does it take to argue the legalities of hobby dedicated to wasting time. :D


For the others who aren't enjoying this thread, it's not about actually selling stuff. It's "mock trial" and debating purely for entertainment purposes..
 
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