Do I sand down playfield to remove rise in wood around posts?

zoggynog

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Do I sand down playfield to remove rise in wood around posts?

Hey Folks,

I have a 1961 Gottlieb Foto Finish I am attempting to repair.

Overall, the playfield is in pretty decent shape, considering age.

However, the wood around the playfield posts, is warped. It is as if the posts/screws being in the wood for all these years has created enough tension over time to make little hills, in my otherwise flat playfield.

What do I do?

Is this something I should sand down, at the risk of sanding into good art around the bumps? Or do I let it be, and ignore the bumps...it's not like the ball rolls over them, affecting play...I'm torn in how to proceed.

Is there some way to sand them down, while messing up as little additional surface as possible?

Thanks for the tips all!

Arron
 
I'm sure the torque over time has distorted the wood. Over time wood can also separate layers causing whats known as "planking".

If it were me, considering it's not affecting game play I'd clean it up and play it as is.
 
Is this something I should sand down, at the risk of sanding into good art around the bumps? Or do I let it be, and ignore the bumps...it's not like the ball rolls over them, affecting play...I'm torn in how to proceed.

Arron

Unless you plan on restoring the playfield you really need to leave them alone.

I am in the playfield restoration business and I do sand them down but you will lose some paint/artwork. When you do sand them down you are going to sand off the finish and expose the bare wood.

Either leave them alone or go all the way and sand them down, restore the artwork and clear coat the playfield.
 
I do intend to completely restore the playfield, and clear after acrylic touch up of the paint. When I say the playfield is decent, I mean for a 1961 pinball. It's not beat to the point of no return.

This thing needs some TLC. I'm not scared to do my own art touch ups. I've already completely removed everything from the top and bottom of the playfield to make the work I'm going to be doing as painless as possible.

I have a gobble hole that was "repaired" with some kind of white putty/paint that I will be spending some serious time fixing already. I guess I really should have asked the more direct question:

I need to sand down playfield post bumps, what's the best way to retain as much of the art as possible, while getting the job done? rotary tool with a sanding bit, hand sand, orbital?

Thanks for all the advice so far,

Arron

Unless you plan on restoring the playfield you really need to leave them alone.

I am in the playfield restoration business and I do sand them down but you will lose some paint/artwork. When you do sand them down you are going to sand off the finish and expose the bare wood.

Either leave them alone or go all the way and sand them down, restore the artwork and clear coat the playfield.
 
You need to sand the playfield to achieve good adhesion to make everything bond. Years ago I use to use 600 grit but found adhesion issues so I now use 320-400. So basically you are going to clean the playfield, use magic eraser if needed also. Then sand it flat with 320-400. Then use a red 3m scuff pad to improve adhesion. Base clear coat the playfield. Let cure. Sand flat with 320-400. Do your airbrushing/touchups. Clear coat again. Let cure. Sand 1500, then buff. You may need to do additional sand flat, re-clear coat to level out the playfield.

Adhesion is the key. Do not cheat. Issues can happen a year down the road. You need to make all your layers bite into the prior surface.
 
Thanks so much for the advice, that helps very much.

It's interesting how much more effort you suggest putting into this versus the pinrepair site and it's various examples. I like the idea of doing a sanding/pre-clear after initial cleanup, I'm sure the result is wonderful. If you don't mind me asking, a few other questions:

1. I assume before you go much past the magic eraser (perhaps before?), you scan your playfield to preserve an idea of how to touch up areas you know will be sanded down. Do you have any suggestions on a scanner model for doing so (I understand the concept of stitching the pics together), or do you shop that out to someone with a large scale scanner. Maybe you go the photo route?

2. On an older playfield such as mine, does the 320-400 eat a ton of paint before your first pre base? Do you worry more about getting competely flat before pre-coat, or keeping original ink in generally flat areas? I can't imagine a field like this has much of a top coat to cut though, before I'm sanding off ink.

3. Can you suggest a good clear for all of this, and do you apply with a sprayer, or use something that rolls on.

Thanks again for the help,

Arron

You need to sand the playfield to achieve good adhesion to make everything bond. Years ago I use to use 600 grit but found adhesion issues so I now use 320-400. So basically you are going to clean the playfield, use magic eraser if needed also. Then sand it flat with 320-400. Then use a red 3m scuff pad to improve adhesion. Base clear coat the playfield. Let cure. Sand flat with 320-400. Do your airbrushing/touchups. Clear coat again. Let cure. Sand 1500, then buff. You may need to do additional sand flat, re-clear coat to level out the playfield.

Adhesion is the key. Do not cheat. Issues can happen a year down the road. You need to make all your layers bite into the prior surface.
 
Do you have any suggestions on a scanner model for doing so (I understand the concept of stitching the pics together), or do you shop that out to someone with a large scale scanner. Maybe you go the photo route?

I use the HP4670 See-thru Scanner for my playfield restorations. I can stitch them together if needed or use them separately. I like to keep them separate so that I can recreate a portion of the playfield as necessary by making masks. I also use the file to recreate the lettering on water-slide decals since my paint-by-hand skills pretty much suck.

Good luck!

Half Life
 
In regards to your question about a sanding tool...

I saw a guy at the glass shop when I picked up my piece. He was using what looked like a cordless file, it had a loop of what I assume was emery paper. The loop rotated lengthwise like a belt sander.

The guy was taking an edge off fresh cut glass plates with it but, I'd bet the tip of it could get in tight to lower your high spots while minimizing extra contact on the p/f. Otherwise maybe a dremel but that too risky.

It's never a popular decision to tear into original work and unique quirks like that make your table more 'personal' IMHO. But it is yours to do with what you want so good luck whatever you decide.
_)
 
... you scan your playfield to preserve an idea of how to touch up areas you know will be sanded down. Do you have any suggestions on a scanner model for doing so (I understand the concept of stitching the pics together), or do you shop that out to someone with a large scale scanner. Maybe you go the photo route?

2. On an older playfield such as mine, does the 320-400 eat a ton of paint before your first pre base? Do you worry more about getting competely flat before pre-coat, or keeping original ink in generally flat areas? I can't imagine a field like this has much of a top coat to cut though, before I'm sanding off ink.

3. Can you suggest a good clear for all of this, and do you apply with a sprayer, or use something that rolls on.

Thanks again for the help,

Arron

I do not use any scanners. I do not print stickers or decals. I may do a search on the Net and look at pictures of a game if I need to see what the missing artwork looks like.

Under post, especially on an EM playfield, it's just a solid color. The large areas are just airbrushed anyways so it's easy to fix areas under posts/plastics, etc.

Here is a recent example of a Gottlieb EM playfield I just restored.

http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/Restorations_Examples/Pages/hsa40.html

You will knock off loose paint and raised wood areas when you sand but that is a good thing. Adhesion is everything.

Our clear coating is sprayed on.
 
It's never a popular decision to tear into original work and unique quirks like that make your table more 'personal' IMHO. But it is yours to do with what you want so good luck whatever you decide.
_)

Sometimes you need to remove original artwork to make a good surface (bonding surface) for your repairs/clear coat to stick to.

Here is a playfield that had loose paint that had to be feathered out.

http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/Restorations_Examples/Pages/hsa32.html

This playfield had such adhesion problem that you could take an air blow gun and the paint would just chip off.
 
Understood. And I am not against it, just sayin'...
The collector Pin freaks are almost as bad as the classic car guys when it comes to 'all original'.

My buddy's car lost 1st place in a contest by 1 measly point once, all because when he changed the dry rotted radiator hoses he put on newer style (worm gear type) hose clamps to replace the old wire type ones. Can you believe they'd dock you for that?
 
Understood. And I am not against it, just sayin'...
The collector Pin freaks are almost as bad as the classic car guys when it comes to 'all original'.


There are people like this in every hobby.

There is a pinball guy who only wants HIS brand of clear coat on his playfields. He will send you a playfield to be clear coated/restored and will send you his can of clear along with it. I will not play his game so I do not do his playfields. I know my products. I do not want to use an unfamiliar product and risk it not coming out correctly.
 
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