Discussion on Pre-orders or Back orders

HighScoreSaves

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While running my site, I made an effort not to do back orders and only have things to purchase on site that are immediately available. I keenly watch what some vendors are doing and customers don't seem to mind.

What are people's thoughts on Pre-orders for new products?

I know this hits a nerve for some people waiting a long time for a product coming to fruitation. Customers can be impatient or the developer of the product hits a snag...

Is there a dollar amount that you would do?
A time frame?
A certain product that you've been wanting?

Guess it comes down to a reputation...however, seems that even with the best vendors there may still be a hiccup.

What are your thoughts on this?


Btw. This is NOT directed towards anyone at all. Looking to see what the average customer thinks of this practice.
 
What not to do ->

Build to Order

Because of the special nature of products that [we] produce most are available on a build-to-order basis. Meaning that once an order is placed and payment received we will build, test and ship that order usually within 2 weeks.

Mainly, I'm saying - "be honest with your customer, don't take $$ if you cannot deliver (or on time), do not underestimate the time-frames, don't claim you have stock if you don't really have stock, guarantee money back if terms are not met, keep good communication with your customer, etc" :rolleyes:
 
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I create the product (PCB repros) and cover all development costs up front to make sure the product works and is tested before I offer a pre-order. That way there are no delays other than ordering the manufacture of the product. This is costly, and is usually what slows me (or anyone) down.

In my case this works because PCB manufacturing is pretty direct since it is its own industry. This worked pretty well for my customers, at least I think so. If anyone that ordered a Quantum PCB repro during the run felt it took too long to receive then I haven't heard about it yet.

I do know some of the products offered here require assembly by the seller, so I can't speak to those situations.
 
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If you build to order, make sure it's clearly stated. I've bought stuff that said it was in stock, but after waiting a month, I've inquired and found that it was actually built-to-order. Communication would be key in those instances to avoid confusion and angry customers.
 
On, and I only pre-order if there is a definite shipping date listed. Nothing worse than an open-ended ship date that morphs from "end of the month" to " some time next year".
 
I have been waiting on an Atari 7800 expansion module for 6 or so years now- what a joke. Paid my preorder money hours after the site went up. Health problems or not, Curt Vendel should be extremely ashamed of himself at this point.

Never again with him. Even stopped going over to AtariAge website it pissed me off so much.

*rant over*

Some of the people over here though- I have sent preorder money and would do it again when I feel confident that they will deliver.
 
I think everyone realizes that this is a hobby for most so being able to purchase something really cool and having to pre-order it isn't a big deal. As long as it gets delivered or refunded.
 
I think everyone realizes that this is a hobby for most so being able to purchase something really cool and having to pre-order it isn't a big deal. As long as it gets delivered or refunded.

I agree with that.
Like a mini Kickstarter.

Seems to be subjective on some projects too.
 
I never Pre-order or back-order, been burned way too many times over the years and hardly ever got the products I ordered.
I will state interest, but I ain't putting down a nickel till the item is ready to ship...

the exception here is products built to order (when it's from a reputable seller) I will buy these on occasion.
 
Personally, I don't usually pre-order things that will eventually be generally available... unless it's something I REALLY want on day one, and strongly believe that they'll come through and deliver (i.e. I pre-ordered the Oculus Rift, HTC Vive, and Playstation VR). I don't pre-order video games, unless they offer a pre-order bonus to make it worthwhile.

Around here... I'm not a big fan of pre-orders, but there are some things that get sold on pre-order only (like Dexter, which 1) would only get built if there were enough pre-orders, and 2) the only way to get it was by pre-ordering... they're not going to be a regularly stocked item after the pre-order run is shipped). This seems to happen on quite a few projects, and it's understandable that for a hobby project, you don't want to build 100 and only sell 10 (or vice versa), and if you're not in the business of shipping things regularly, it becomes a huge hassle to ship orders of one or two items all the time, vs. shipping the entire bunch of pre-orders at once.

But, you've gotta look at the risk, and seller's history. If the design is done, and the pre-order is to figure out how many parts to order, pieces of metal to cut, etc... I'm much more comfortable than someone taking pre-orders for a project that they're working on.

Regarding back-order... nah, almost never. If it'll be back in stock at some point, I'll just wait.

DogP
 
Personally, I don't usually pre-order things that will eventually be generally available... unless it's something I REALLY want on day one, and strongly believe that they'll come through and deliver (i.e. I pre-ordered the Oculus Rift, HTC Vive, and Playstation VR). I don't pre-order video games, unless they offer a pre-order bonus to make it worthwhile.

Around here... I'm not a big fan of pre-orders, but there are some things that get sold on pre-order only (like Dexter, which 1) would only get built if there were enough pre-orders, and 2) the only way to get it was by pre-ordering... they're not going to be a regularly stocked item after the pre-order run is shipped). This seems to happen on quite a few projects, and it's understandable that for a hobby project, you don't want to build 100 and only sell 10 (or vice versa), and if you're not in the business of shipping things regularly, it becomes a huge hassle to ship orders of one or two items all the time, vs. shipping the entire bunch of pre-orders at once.

But, you've gotta look at the risk, and seller's history. If the design is done, and the pre-order is to figure out how many parts to order, pieces of metal to cut, etc... I'm much more comfortable than someone taking pre-orders for a project that they're working on.

Regarding back-order... nah, almost never. If it'll be back in stock at some point, I'll just wait.

DogP

This is the line of thought I have too. Dexter is the perfect example of this IMO.

I was looking at my site and was thinking, mind you, only thinking, of switching on the back order option. I just am not comfortable holding people's money without shipping it out right away.

With preorders, I was only curious what customers are thinking. Makes a big difference IMO. Seems some don't mind, others do. All these years I've seen a lot here. ;)
 
I have zero interest in Back orders or pre order stuff no matter how cool and item is or how great of a need I have for that item.

I was involved in tracking down someone to make refunds on klov. While everyone got a refund (I think since the person forgot who he owned money too), I am still experiencing the repercussion of my choice to get involved. Because of the many past experiences here and what I have read on klov, I just keep my wallet shut until product is ready to be sold and shipped.

If your going to represent yourself as a business, you should run it as a business and not as a hobby. Some people work way too hard for their money to get jerked around waiting for some business to figure out what they are doing. Crowd funding a project means the customers assumes that you will follow through. There are way too many threads on here about projects not coming through.
 
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I placed an order on Tuesday for something that I wanted to work on next week. The item was on ebay and also on the vendor's website. I ordered from the website (basically as a favor to the vendor). On Friday, I had no shipping notice. I start my research on the vendor and find out he only ships on Saturday.

1. He doesn't ship ebay orders only on Saturday according to the auction.
2. His website doesn't say he only ships on Saturday.
3. I sent an email on Thursday and have no response as of yet.

First of all, I am not worried about getting ripped off - I have credit card protection.
Second, I had no idea I was dealing with a "hobby" business from the website.
Last, I'll not order again from the website simply because there are better alternatives.

When people decide to take money, there is an acceptable service level that is implied. If vendors don't want to live up to this level, they need to clearly communicate what buyers' expectations should be so they can choose their vendors wisely.

Pre-orders are for the birds. Back orders are acceptable for unique items that are elsewhere unavailable.

Let me summarize for you vendors who are reading this: If you take my money, ship my stuff in one business day. If you are backed up and can't ship in one business day, stop taking new orders until you can. If you can't live up to this standard, clearly state what should be my expectations before you take my money.

It's really pretty simple. If I want to wait a week for something common to ship, I'll order the same crap of aliexpress just like you. If you are selling something custom, don't sell it until you have inventory. If you are selling something like craftymech's SLG, his methods are completely acceptable to me. There is no reason a vendor should risk "potential" customers' money on inventory. If you are such a BAMF that you can't afford the carrying cost of inventory, I simply don't want to buy things from you. If you lack the confidence in your product to be willing to risk the acquisition/carrying cost of your inventory, I sure don't want to bear that burden. It's time to man up and write the check rather than crying to "the community" to finance your endeavors.
 
I placed an order on Tuesday for something that I wanted to work on next week. The item was on ebay and also on the vendor's website. I ordered from the website (basically as a favor to the vendor). On Friday, I had no shipping notice. I start my research on the vendor and find out he only ships on Saturday.

1. He doesn't ship ebay orders only on Saturday according to the auction.
2. His website doesn't say he only ships on Saturday.
3. I sent an email on Thursday and have no response as of yet.

First of all, I am not worried about getting ripped off - I have credit card protection.
Second, I had no idea I was dealing with a "hobby" business from the website.
Last, I'll not order again from the website simply because there are better alternatives.

When people decide to take money, there is an acceptable service level that is implied. If vendors don't want to live up to this level, they need to clearly communicate what buyers' expectations should be so they can choose their vendors wisely.

Pre-orders are for the birds. Back orders are acceptable for unique items that are elsewhere unavailable.

Let me summarize for you vendors who are reading this: If you take my money, ship my stuff in one business day. If you are backed up and can't ship in one business day, stop taking new orders until you can. If you can't live up to this standard, clearly state what should be my expectations before you take my money.

It's really pretty simple. If I want to wait a week for something common to ship, I'll order the same crap of aliexpress just like you. If you are selling something custom, don't sell it until you have inventory. If you are selling something like craftymech's SLG, his methods are completely acceptable to me. There is no reason a vendor should risk "potential" customers' money on inventory. If you are such a BAMF that you can't afford the carrying cost of inventory, I simply don't want to buy things from you. If you lack the confidence in your product to be willing to risk the acquisition/carrying cost of your inventory, I sure don't want to bear that burden. It's time to man up and write the check rather than crying to "the community" to finance your endeavors.

I have the same philosophy. I ship fast as a business, since that is what I want as a customer.

Only selling what is in stock. I've said that since day one.

We all know that most Arcade related stores are hobbies. No one denies that. That's why most are ok with delays, back orders, preorders etc. Seems most people are pretty laxed on this though.

Interesting to see people's thoughts on the subject...
 
I don't do pre-orders because I don't like holding anyone's money for more than a couple weeks max. Spending a few months on a waiting list can be a long time, but at least no money is tied up in the mean time. I also front all my costs for development, if I believe in the product and there seems to be enough interest, then I'm ok investing and taking the risk.
 
Guess it comes down to a reputation...however, seems that even with the best vendors there may still be a hiccup.

This. If jrok or a known good guy who has always delivered offered something cool but needed prepayment, I'd send the funds on over even if they said it would take a few months. However if the guy or company doesn't have an established rep I'd probably pass.

I learned my lesson 5 or 6 years ago when I paid $275ish for a large Tron neon sign from some areshole here on klov that wound up scamming a couple dozen people.
 
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