Discrete Logic Arcade Game List

Stiletto

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So let me introduce you to where I'm currently tracking the "MAME emulation" / documentation status of discrete logic (TTL-based, no CPU) arcade games:
https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Discrete

Some guidelines it uses:
1. Priority is on video arcade games... why? Because once MAME emulates them based on schematics, PCB scans, oscilloscope measurements and graphics ROM dumps, we can _easily_ verify if the emulation is working properly based on YouTube recordings and actual PCBs and such. Non-video games require lots of artwork to be scanned to even look close to the real thing. So... for reproducibiity of testing, I guess.

2. We don't want to add any more games lacking CRTs to this list yet. "But what about the wall games that were added, and the electromechanical, and the pinball? There's plenty more of those!" ... those came from the sources we mined for info. For now, to make comparing/contrasting some of my sources for this list easier - until we're done with doing that, they stay but do not grow.

3. If we really did miss some video arcade games that lack CPUs, just tell us (the wiki editors), and we'll add it.

4. Debunked a game sufficiently for it to be removed as not existing? Also let us know.

5. Slowly, all the jotted-down notes will be put back into a page per game, properly linked to Discrete Logistics, Arcade-History, Flyer Fever, TAFA, KLOV, and many other information sources as needed.

6. In case you are familiar with the Undumped wiki - unlike other pages on the Undumped wiki, this time we DO want to make pages for dumped games, just because a game is dumped does not mean documented enough for emulation. We've listed games currently simulated in MAME (Pong, Pong Doubles, Breakout) on a separate list.

7. This page is just for status tracking. (Is it dumped? Do we have schematics? If not, or if the schematics suck, do we have PCBs accessible? etc. etc.) Since this is a wiki, we'll primarily be linking to other sources of information and/or correcting that information when we can spare the time.

8. Want an account to help with this process? Let us know and we'll send you an invite.

It's taken us a long time to get us back to this point, similar to what The Bronzeage Archive had done back in the day. :)

NOTE: The "Undumped Wiki", while hosted at a domain called mamedev.emulab.it, is not an official project of the MAME project.
 
I love this project!! But I'm not sure I totally understand it. Are you only listing games that are on MAME already? I haven't tried a new MAME version in many many years, so I don't know what's there. But if you're making a list of discrete logic games, 3 that aren't on your list yet are:
Atari Sky Diver
Space War
Exidy Robot Bowl

Sorry for the noise if I'm off base here.
 
I love this project!! But I'm not sure I totally understand it. Are you only listing games that are on MAME already?

We're only listing games that are NOT in MAME already (either partially or fully emulated), and for this particular list, of those, video arcade games which don't use a CPU (implemented via a microprocessor or implemented via TTL) - ergo, video arcade games from the Bronze Age era.

But if you're making a list of discrete logic games, 3 that aren't on your list yet are:
Atari Sky Diver

Uses a M6800 CPU. While its additional circuitry may use discrete logic, just the fact that it uses a CPU disqualifies it from this list. Plus, already in MAME for many years.
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=skydiver

Space War

Assuming you mean the Cinematronics game "Space Wars", in MAME for many years. Uses the "Cinematronics CPU", which is a CPU implemented in TTL. Maybe someday we'll emulate the Cinematronics CPU at the TTL level, but there's no need right now.
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=spacewar

The 1962 game "Spacewar!" is also emulated in MAME, emulating a Digital PDP-1 with tape reader.

There's a few other games named "Space War" supported by MAME but I doubt you meant them:
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=spcewarl
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=spcewarla
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=spcewars
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=spacewr3

Exidy Robot Bowl

Uses a M6502 CPU. Supported by MAME for many years.
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=robotbwl
 
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Assuming you mean the Cinematronics game "Space Wars", in MAME for many years. Uses the "Cinematronics CPU", which is a CPU implemented in TTL. Maybe someday we'll emulate the Cinematronics CPU at the TTL level, but there's no need right now.

Does the MAME debugger support debugging the Cine games? (I haven't run it in years) If so who's mnemonics did they use? Original Cine game design doc? Zonn's? thier own? I'm doing some Cine work and it would be helpful if it did.

Also,
What kind of help are you looking for? Just validating the info on the Wiki? Providing more info on what's in the Wiki? Something else?
 
Does the MAME debugger support debugging the Cine games? (I haven't run it in years) If so who's mnemonics did they use? Original Cine game design doc? Zonn's? thier own? I'm doing some Cine work and it would be helpful if it did.

Should debug it, yeah. I think we're Zonn-based, but I'm no expert.
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/tree/master/src/devices/cpu/ccpu

What kind of help are you looking for? Just validating the info on the Wiki? Providing more info on what's in the Wiki? Something else?

Mainly looking for:
- more info (for TTL-based games, acquiring schematics/manuals/PCB scans will be key, besides any graphics/sound ROM dumps)
- more non-CPU games to list (if I missed any)
 
Exidy's TV Pinball, Score, Alley Rally and Football are discrete and I don't think they're in MAME. I have a TV Pinball PCB and I'll try to post some pics at some point.

Robot Bowl used a processor, I think it used the same board as Crash, Circus etc.
 
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We're only listing games........which don't use a CPU (implemented via a microprocessor or implemented via TTL) - ergo, video arcade games from the Bronze Age era.
This is a little confusing to me. Maybe your definition of CPU would help? Do you mean any hardware implementation of an ISA (instruction set architecture) or other programmable model?
EDIT: After some reading it seems like the Cinematronics games used a discrete implementation of a programmable CPU. Is that what you mean?

If my understanding/asumptions are correct, Vector Pong would count. It uses discrete logic and analog compute circuits and it isn't in anybody's list of anything yet.
 
Exidy's TV Pinball, Score, Alley Rally and Football are discrete and I don't think they're in MAME. I have a TV Pinball PCB and I'll try to post some pics at some point.

It is true that they are not in MAME, but they already exist in my list. So I do not need to list them.

https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=List_of_Undocumented_Discrete_Logic_Arcade_Games#Exidy

https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=TV_Pinball

https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Score

https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Alley_Rally

Table Football : https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Table_Football_/_Table_Foosballer is discrete.

However, the information I have on Football (from the memories of an ex-Exidy employee) claim that it was built on Exidy's 'Universal' Game Board V1 hardware (MAME: circus.cpp). So it is in a different list on the wiki.

https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Football

Will gladly borrow the TV Pinball PCB photos from you at some point tho! :)

Robot Bowl used a processor, I think it used the same board as Crash, Circus etc.

Indeed, which is why it is NOT listed in our list - and is already dumped, and emulated by MAME.
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?lang=en&game_name=robotbwl

Again, the goal for THIS list is to list the non-CPU video arcade games, not also list the games that are already dumped and emulated, or the games that used a processor.
 
This is a little confusing to me. Maybe your definition of CPU would help? Do you mean any hardware implementation of an ISA (instruction set architecture) or other programmable model?
EDIT: After some reading it seems like the Cinematronics games used a discrete implementation of a programmable CPU. Is that what you mean?

Yep, that's precisely what I mean. As far as I know only the Cinematronics games used a discrete implementation of a programmable CPU, but I'm hedging my bets.

Broadly speaking, any video arcade game using a CPU implemented in discrete logic/TTL would first be implemented in MAME as an instruction-level emulation, even though MAME's framework allows for component-level simulation of discrete logic (hence the reason for this side project's existence).

And admittedly for at least one other game, Micronetics' "Night Racer", the development stories lean towards it possibly also using a programmable CPU implemented in discrete logic.
https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Night_Racer

But it's hard to confirm given that game's rarity.

If my understanding/asumptions are correct, Vector Pong would count. It uses discrete logic and analog compute circuits and it isn't in anybody's list of anything yet.

Do you mean this game?
https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=20312

[EDIT] Oh I see, it's your pet project.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=149948
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=280504
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=368216

Yes, could conceivably list that. As with the rest, it could conceivably be emulated in MAME, provided we have simulation for all of the discrete devices and the contents of any ROMs.

[EDIT] Okay, listed you:
https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Vector_Pong

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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Taito's Super Highway runs on an 8080. See attached pic (I can provide more pics if needed).

Thanks for debunking this, I've updated the wiki (and MAME's taitottl.cpp comments) and moved the Super Highway entry to only the appropriate list in the wiki, the massive "Undumped Games" main page. If you can provide permission, can I copy this PCB photo (and any other pics you have to offer) to the Undumped wiki?

Someday when you feel like seeing this game emulated in MAME, feel free to get in touch. :)
 
A friend has this cabinet. A Segasa Dogfight. Some sort of Jet Fighter clone I guess. He has it in a storage that is quite far from both me and him so I will not be able to get a hold of any pics of the PCB:s to confirm whether it is CPU-based or not. Only info I've found is this: http://www.recreativas.org/dog-fight-341-segasa
 

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