Device programmers

larrylemming

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For anyone that has a device programmer:

What do you use?
Does it work well?
Would you recommend it?

I'm in the market for something that, at the very least, can read and burn EPROMs. So far, the best options I have seen are from Dataman, but that's a bit of an investment. I would buy one of the Chinese-made programmers, but I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on them (seem to be finicky).
 
My favorite programmer of all time is the Needham's PB-10. It's a fantastic, fast, reliable programmer that does pretty much all the classic EPROMs, all the way up to 8mbit. It won't do triple-voltage devices, but, then again, most things won't.

The software is fast and super easy to use - a fantastic interface. Device selection is quick and easy. The programmer is an ISA card that plugs directly into the computer, no external device, power cables, etc - just a little ribbon cable with a ZIF socket on it.

If you can find one, buy it, you'll be very happy with it.

I also have an EETools TopMax. It does a lot more newer stuff than the Needham's, but the software isn't nearly as nice. I find it pretty clunky and slow to use in comparison. Frankly, I hate the software that goes with the TopMax. It's tolerable, but, man, Needham's did a much better job. :)

It's a parallel programmer, so you need both a power and parallel cable t the device. Although, it does make it a bit more portable.

Overall, it's a great programmer, wonderful device support, and it's been very reliable. Has some kind of nice features like simple RAM testing (only works on a small number of RAM chips though) and some IC testing.

I use the Needham's for everything I can, resorting to the TopMax for newer devices.

-Ian
 
I'd heard of EETools before but hadn't taken a look. They seem to make good things. I feel like I can tolerate quirky software, especially for something I won't be using terribly often.
 
The only disadvantage of the TopMax is that it is very expensive. I got a good deal on a used one a long time ago, but even then I spent a fair bit of money on it. I felt it was worth it since I program so many EPROMs. I honestly don't know if they even still make that programmer.

If you only intend to do occasional ROM burning, it might not be worth the cost. Fortunately, the Needham's programmer, when you can find one, usually goes for less than $50.

I do not have any experience with the current crop of Chinese/inexpensive programmers. I messed with a Willem once, and I'm really glad I never bought one - what a piece of garbage. That was several years ago, so I don't know what kind of improvements they've made, but it was an unholy mess back then. I actually know one arcade collector that smashed a Willem with a hammer out of frustration... Heh.

-Ian
 
I use a GQ-4X. It's around $100, the software is very good and it works with modern PC's. (USB interface, Win 7 support) I've found the GQ-4X works fine for probably 90% of the devices I encounter, since I usually work on 80's classics. (TMS2532's, 2764's, etc.) It won't do PALs or PROMs though, and doesn't have an IC test function unfortunately. I have access to a Dataman 48Pro+ at work, which is an awesome programmer and supports pretty much every device under the sun, but they are very expensive.
 
My favorite programmer of all time is the Needham's PB-10. It's a fantastic, fast, reliable programmer that does pretty much all the classic EPROMs, all the way up to 8mbit. It won't do triple-voltage devices, but, then again, most things won't.

It won't program proms, right? I'd like to get a programmer, but it needs to be able to program proms, because I own 3 Punch-Out boardsets, and their color proms (6 on each boardset) are known for going bad.
 
For anyone that has a device programmer:

What do you use?
Does it work well?
Would you recommend it?

I'm in the market for something that, at the very least, can read and burn EPROMs. So far, the best options I have seen are from Dataman, but that's a bit of an investment.

I have a GQ-4X programmer. Out of the box, it can do EPROMs from 2716 (not TMS) up through 27080. I've personally used it for pretty much every size EPROM up to 27040. It can also do common NVRAM devices (DS1220 etc.), flash devices, and more modern microcontrollers; but outside of EPROMs, the only thing I've personally used mine for is NVRAMs.

If you're going to need to program 16-bit EPROMS, such as 27C1024, 2048, 4096, 27C800, etc., you'll need an extra adapter. I have that adapter, and I've programmed a 27C4096 with it no problem.

However, this programmer will NOT program bipolar PROMs or 70's vintage tri-voltage EPROMs (i.e. 2708, TMS2716). In addition, it does NOT to TTL IC testing, as some programmers will.

Overall, I am happy with my GQ-4X. The software is windows-based (not DOS), and the interface is USB-only. When programming some ICs, it recommends connecting an external power supply, but I haven't had it fail to program yet without external power.
 
I have a TopMax and a ChipMax by eeTools.

The ChipMax does 2716 (single voltage) through 27080 and 16 bit EPROMs up through 27C4096. It only has a 40 pin socket.

The TopMax does 2716 (single voltage) through 27080 and 16 bit EPROMs up to 27C322 (32Mbit). It has a 48 pin socket and I've used it with adapters to program PLCC, SOIC, and TSSOP packaged devices. It also does many older fuse link PROMs, PLAs (82S100!), and will do GAL/PALCE/PEEL devices. It also supports many odd PROMs/EPROMs such as 23C1000 and Motorola 68764/68766.

I also have an old Data I/O Series 22 with the 064a PROM module. It will do the tri-voltage 2704/2708 and TMS2716 chips, ancient fuse link programmable PROMs, and other oddball chips that the other programmers I have will not.

The ones I can't program are the ones that use -48v to program such as the older than dirt 1702A EPROM. I'm still looking for a programmer for that.

RJ

PS: Love the TopMax so much I sniped a new one on eBay to keep around as a spare.
 
Sounds like people like the GQ-4X and EE Tools programmers.

Nice to hear some positive feedback for the GQ-4X. I've seen it a couple times before, but I've been nervous because it's a "Willem Programmer." But looking at the supported device list, I might give it a shot.
 
You cant beat the GQ-4X for the price. I use mine on a daily basis and its never failed me. I also have a pocket programmer 3 which in my opinion is not worth the price tag.
For proms I use a data IO 29B with unipak 2B.
 
My favorite programmer of all time is the Needham's PB-10. It's a fantastic, fast, reliable programmer that does pretty much all the classic EPROMs, all the way up to 8mbit. It won't do triple-voltage devices, but, then again, most things won't.

The software is fast and super easy to use - a fantastic interface. Device selection is quick and easy. The programmer is an ISA card that plugs directly into the computer, no external device, power cables, etc - just a little ribbon cable with a ZIF socket on it.

If you can find one, buy it, you'll be very happy with it.

I also have an EETools TopMax. It does a lot more newer stuff than the Needham's, but the software isn't nearly as nice. I find it pretty clunky and slow to use in comparison. Frankly, I hate the software that goes with the TopMax. It's tolerable, but, man, Needham's did a much better job. :)

It's a parallel programmer, so you need both a power and parallel cable t the device. Although, it does make it a bit more portable.

Overall, it's a great programmer, wonderful device support, and it's been very reliable. Has some kind of nice features like simple RAM testing (only works on a small number of RAM chips though) and some IC testing.

I use the Needham's for everything I can, resorting to the TopMax for newer devices.

-Ian

+1

This is the programmer I use also and love it and I paid about $35 dollars for it shipped. There is another Needham's programmer that can do more chips but can't remember the name and number; I think it is a ep20 or something like that.

There is one pb-10 on e-pay right now but it is listed at buy it now for 199 and that is just too high. You should be able to get one of the pb10's for under $50.
 
You cant beat the GQ-4X for the price. I use mine on a daily basis and its never failed me. I also have a pocket programmer 3 which in my opinion is not worth the price tag.
For proms I use a data IO 29B with unipak 2B.

And this data IO 29B will probably be my next programmer purchase...
 
I wrote about my experiences with different programmers awhile ago

https://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.arcade.collecting/msg/3192413964f3aac9?hl=en

That posting is 5 years old, but still pretty relevant today.

----

The only thing I would add is that many of the newer programmers
are USB-connected AND powered .

A USB-powered programmer is asking for trouble as it will only do newer CMOS eproms,
and will choke on the older NMOS eproms ( circa 1980-1982 ) of which most
of the 2716, 2532 and 2732 are. If you get one of these programmers,
make sure they also have the ability to use an AC/DC power adapter
to provide more voltage and power.

Happy Hunting.

Cheers,
Steph
www.Hobbyroms.com
 
I've been using a Needham's EMP-20 for a while now, and I love the thing.

It's amazingly reliable, easy to use, and I got it for cheap. The only thing about it is that it needs a parallel port to use it. But I have a few old laptops here that are dedicated JUST to the EMP-20.

It sounds like a mess, but I've got 3 laptops that I can use with the programmer and I haven't bought a single one of them. They were all given to me, without me even have'ng to ask for them... so keeping up a computer to go with the programmer hasn't been an issue.

The software for it is a little hit-or-miss with WinXP, but it's flawless in 95/98 and can be run in VMWare in Linux on a 95/98 virtual desktop if need be.
 
If your older programmer requires a parallel port you can use an add on card if your pc doesnt have a port. I installed one in my windows 7 computer to run my data I/O 29B.
 
If your older programmer requires a parallel port you can use an add on card if your pc doesnt have a port. I installed one in my windows 7 computer to run my data I/O 29B.

That's nice to know. Everything I've heard about this/these programmers is that they wouldn't recognize an expansion card as a legitimate port for them.
 
If your older programmer requires a parallel port you can use an add on card if your pc doesnt have a port. I installed one in my windows 7 computer to run my data I/O 29B.

That's dependent on a lot of things: whether your add-on card emulates a true-blue Parallel Port or just enough to connect to a printer, what platform the software was written for, whether or not you enable Compatibility Mode on your software, etc. etc. Some programs require replacement I/O libraries to run in new versions of Windows. If your software was designed to run in Windows 9x, it's going to expect to be able to talk directly to the hardware, which it might not be able to do in later versions of Windows (2000 and later.)

I almost have to wonder if running the old software in VirtualBox or DosBox might not work better, as they can provide a true parallel port abstraction to the software.
 
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