Defender 4164 mod info

DP Louie

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Anyone have a link to a detailed walkthru of the 4164 mod? I searched and found several threads on the mod, but no real details on exactly how I need to do it. This is for my Defender cocktail, I'm getting intermittent "Ram failure" messages. I've cleaned and reseated all the 4116's, but it still happens occasionally. I've got the game sold if I can get this issue fixed.
 
http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/techwilliams4164.html

I think it's cause when you run 4164s you need to make a power adapter for them. they only use +5 instead of the 4116s. if you read that article you'll find that voltages +12 and -5 are no longer needed on the main board (the +/-12 are still occupied by the sound board however, so you still need that from your PSU)

I'm glad I found this on google, I couldn't remember where I saw it.
 
Thank you! Now I just need to find my stash of 4164's. I bought some a over a year ago to put in my Defender UR, but I went with a jrok board instead.
 
http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/techwilliams4164.html

I think it's cause when you run 4164s you need to make a power adapter for them. they only use +5 instead of the 4116s. if you read that article you'll find that voltages +12 and -5 are no longer needed on the main board (the +/-12 are still occupied by the sound board however, so you still need that from your PSU)

I'm glad I found this on google, I couldn't remember where I saw it.

On my own personal games, I don't bother with the adapter. I just add the +5 jumper on the back of the CPU input pins and then remove the -5 and +12 wires from the connector and tie them off. I also label the board so someone else (god forbid) knows it's been done...
 
http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/techwilliams4164.html

I think it's cause when you run 4164s you need to make a power adapter for them.

It's stupid to make the adapter cable... it'll just make ir more likely to acidentally put your 4164 board in a cab w/o the adapter and fry all your RAM. It makes much more sense to mod the board so it can be used in ANY cabinet w/o issue.

Just cut the traces coming off the -5 and +12 connector pins, (or remove the pins totally) and jumper pin 8 to pin 9 on any one of the DRAM sockets on the bottom of the board.

People only suggest the adapter cables since that's something they can sell you =-P
 
It's stupid to make the adapter cable... it'll just make ir more likely to acidentally put your 4164 board in a cab w/o the adapter and fry all your RAM. It makes much more sense to mod the board so it can be used in ANY cabinet w/o issue.

Just cut the traces coming off the -5 and +12 connector pins, (or remove the pins totally) and jumper pin 8 to pin 9 on any one of the DRAM sockets on the bottom of the board.

People only suggest the adapter cables since that's something they can sell you =-P

yeah. well like mod said, you can label it too.
 
anyone wanna do this mod for me to my defender board?? If so PM me quote on how much it would cost.. id like to get this done to mine!

im ok with some repairing on boards but im not that good.. looks alittle complicated for me..:)
 
As long as the board is working to begin with, I can do the 4164 mod for $20 + return shipping, or I can be one of the people Mark complained about and sell you an adapter for $12 and you can swap the RAMs and plug it in yourself.

ken
 
My homebrew 4164 adapter

I recently finished making my own adapter so I could replace the 4116 RAM chips with 4164 and blogged about it here: http://goo.gl/0mV0ud

I had a few issues, mainly:
1. Exactly what connectors to buy that would mate with the existing connectors in the unit. I've listed the parts I used and where to order them.
2. Figuring out what type and speed of DRAM I need. Turns out, it's not really an issue.
3. Not getting anything backwards or reversed. Easy to do after staring at the connectors and drawings too long. :)

While it's pretty easy to mod the board and skip the adapter, I didn't want to modify the board. If you label the connector and the board well, using the wrong chips in the future seems pretty unlikely to me.

It was a fun project, and it turned out well. I hope someone finds it helpful!
Craig
 
I noticed a couple errors on your page. First, you say:

"4116 chips require 2 sources: +5, and +12V and 1 sink, the ground."

4116 DRAM are actually tri-voltage. You are missing the -5V (pin 1).

Second (and this is related), when you made your adapter you decided to pass through the -5V (against the advice of the diagram you were following). So now you are feeding -5V to pin number 1 on your 4164 DRAM. That pin is usually NC (No Connection), but not always (see http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/memory/4164.htm). So applying a voltage there may not be a good idea. When I mod boards, I usually ground that pin so that you can also use 41256 DRAM as well.


http://www.scoresaves.com/misc/JustSayNoTo4116.html
 
can't believe I posted in this 5 years ago. :p

I do the scoresaves method. the very first ram that takes the juice in will have +5 running to 2 pins actually, and I always wondered why that was, but then I checked a datasheet and the pin it takes it in at is actually a NC one that does nothing.

I don't play around, I make it permanent, so if you throw it in another cab for whatever reason you won't ruin the new ram.
 
On my own personal games, I don't bother with the adapter. I just add the +5 jumper on the back of the CPU input pins and then remove the -5 and +12 wires from the connector and tie them off. I also label the board so someone else (god forbid) knows it's been done...

so just to be clear cause I like your method, the +5 jumper your talking about is the red highlighted part of the attached picture without cutting the trace obviously and then remove the -5 and +12 sources from the board. Anybody else can chime in also if I'm getting this right or wrong. I know I'm doing this at my own risk and all that jive, thanks.
 

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for 4164 you only need to cut the trace in the red box and jumper it over.

for other ram types you do the yellow mod as well.

that particular trace you have to cut is pretty strong, I was never able to get it with a blade. I wound up using a sanding bit for a dremel to blow that trace. as an added bonus, I cut the trace about the same distance away as the jumper wire will have to go between points, IF FOR WHATEVER REASON I want to go back to 4116 again. (which I actually did once diagnosing a Defender board throwing ram errors even with new 4164 ram -- it wound up being something else entirely :))
 
I noticed a couple errors on your page. First, you say:

<snip>

4116 DRAM are actually tri-voltage. You are missing the -5V (pin 1).

<snip>

...now you are feeding -5V to pin number 1 on your 4164 DRAM. That pin is usually NC (No Connection), but not always (see http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/memory/4164.htm). So applying a voltage there may not be a good idea. When I mod boards, I usually ground that pin so that you can also use 41256 DRAM as well.

Wow. Thank you. I completely misunderstood why the diagram said "no connection" and did not catch myself. I now see the author was referring to the pin connection on the chip. I agree with you completely that including the -5V connection in the adapter is not a good idea. I was fortunate to be using 4164 chips that truly had no connection at pin 1.

While I knew using 41256 is possible, I did not know that the only additional requirement is that pin 1 go to ground. It costs little to do that, so rather than just remove the -5V connection, I'll ground it. I'll update my posting asap and be sure you get credit for your help and link to your site.

Thank you again!
Craig
 
for 4164 you only need to cut the trace in the red box and jumper it over.

for other ram types you do the yellow mod as well.

sort of correct but not really. the "yellow mod" is so you dont have to mod the 4164 with a jumper wire for ground on ever single chip.
 
sort of correct but not really. the "yellow mod" is so you dont have to mod the 4164 with a jumper wire for ground on ever single chip.

yellow mod is for 41256 ram.

I would know. I've seen it on a Sinistar board. in fact they had about 3 other cuts too, they wanted to really make sure all those other voltages weren't getting there.
 
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