Converting Exidy Venture to Teeter Torture possible?

[jkoolpe]

Ask...and ye shall receive!

As I am good friends with the owner (and we're co-organizers of CAX of course), here are some photos I took of the board from inside the TT cabinet at the show on Saturday night.

Rank Hath Its Privileges

The board set looks pretty similar/nearly identical to Venture/Pepper II/Mouse Trap...all of which are plug and play in my Venture cabinet.

Hopefully, y'all can use them...it's a great game.

But we must also have a Hard Hat next year ...

Jon

 

[jkoolpe]

Was also just thinking...a friend of mine wired me up a harness that allows me to play Mouse Trap in my Venture despite the differences in control panels between the 2 games. I just swap the boards, attach the MT control panel with the modified wiring harness, and I'm good to go to play some MT.

Surely making such a harness to cover TT would be possible as well (just need to find a roller).

Jon

 

[Tornadoboy]

Awesome P1899M and Jkoolpe, now we're getting somewhere! If you can try to get some ultra high res pics of both boards in the set and the spinner mech so we can go over them with a fine tooth comb later, and one of the complete marquee artwork paper would be awesome for vectorizing.

 

[ChompingQuarters]

Ask...and ye shall receive!

As I am good friends with the owner (and we're co-organizers of CAX of course), here are some photos I took of the board from inside the TT cabinet at the show on Saturday night.

Rank Hath It's Privileges

The board set looks pretty similar/nearly identical to Venture/Pepper II/Mouse Trap...all of which are plug and play in my Venture cabinet.

Hopefully, y'all can use them...it's a great game.

But we must also have a Hard Hat next year ...

Jon

Thanks Jon. I have a later version of Venture and wonder if this is what we need for Teeter Torture to work.

 

[p1899m]

Thanks Jon. I have a later version of Venture and wonder if this is what we need for Teeter Torture to work.

Don't know if an earlier or later version will make a difference. My guess is either will work. I tend to believe Venture is a slightly better candidate than a pepper II but both should work. The best advice I can give is do not reference the manual for the eproms. Look at the actual eproms that are on the board you plan to rom swap. Exidy was not consistent in the eproms they used on a particular board so sometimes the info in the manual is incorrect. Exidy seemed to adjust (usually via jumper) to make the parts they had work. Following the manual blindly is not the best option with Exidy in my experience.

 

[jkoolpe]

Unfortunately, that's all I have right now, and it is unlikely I will have another opportunity to get any better pictures until next year's show. The game is stored by the owner in their warehouse until they bring it to the show each year.

Their warehouse is a bit far from me (about 80 miles) and I doubt I'll get down there any time soon.

Jon

Awesome P1899M and Jkoolpe, now we're getting somewhere! If you can try to get some ultra high res pics of both boards in the set and the spinner mech so we can go over them with a fine tooth comb later, and one of the complete marquee artwork paper would be awesome for vectorizing.

 

[Tornadoboy]

Unfortunately, that's all I have right now, and it is unlikely I will have another opportunity to get any better pictures until next year's show. The game is stored by the owner in their warehouse until they bring it to the show each year.

Their warehouse is a bit far from me (about 80 miles) and I doubt I'll get down there any time soon.

Jon

At least you've confirmed some suspicions about the hardware, hopefully that'll be enough for one of us to get it working. Any idea on the ROM placement? I was just going to compare the names of the Venture ROMs to those of TT, they're very simular. I'm still waiting on a deal I'm working out with someone for a Venture boardset amongst some other boards so I'm not going to be able to try it until that sorts itself out.

 

[Tornadoboy]

I just got 2 complete Pepper II boardsets (Thanks Exidy!) and thought I'd celebrate by reviving this old thread because this little experiment is why I got them. First I'm going to confirm whether either works and if not fix them, then I'm going to start playing around with the conversion.

 

[gwarble]

i also, like most, played this game at CAX years ago and was very impressed... fast action, seemingly high replay value, unique controls... this was back when the roms weren't available, so I just waited for the next year to get my fix... but i secretly wanted one (or "it" in this case)

i stumbled on your guys thread and it appears no tests have actually been done yet, but i wanted to try and spark interest before this years show and see if anyone can find out if its possible board-wise...

if it is, i want to contribute by offering to build the roller, as close to original as possible from whatever photos/designs/samples can be dredged up... my guess is it was or can all be made from machined parts, so i'd love to make samples, freebies, at worst provide at my cost...

but one of you smart folk have to make sure it would work... mame isn't a good enough reason to spend the time

- gwarble

 

[p1899m]

i also, like most, played this game at CAX years ago and was very impressed... fast action, seemingly high replay value, unique controls... this was back when the roms weren't available, so I just waited for the next year to get my fix... but i secretly wanted one (or "it" in this case)

i stumbled on your guys thread and it appears no tests have actually been done yet, but i wanted to try and spark interest before this years show and see if anyone can find out if its possible board-wise...

if it is, i want to contribute by offering to build the roller, as close to original as possible from whatever photos/designs/samples can be dredged up... my guess is it was or can all be made from machined parts, so i'd love to make samples, freebies, at worst provide at my cost...

but one of you smart folk have to make sure it would work... mame isn't a good enough reason to spend the time

- gwarble

I forget what's in this thread and what tornadoboy and I have PMed about. I'm about 99% sure this is possible using a venture board. The main question which we will likely not have an answer for until this years CAX is the detail of the roller. Not only mechanically but also the pcb that I believe must be attached to it. I've seen the board set up close and it looks no different whatsoever than a venture or pepper II board set (or hard hat for that matter).

 

[ChompingQuarters]

I forget what's in this thread and what tornadoboy and I have PMed about. I'm about 99% sure this is possible using a venture board. The main question which we will likely not have an answer for until this years CAX is the detail of the roller. Not only mechanically but also the pcb that I believe must be attached to it. I've seen the board set up close and it looks no different whatsoever than a venture or pepper II board set (or hard hat for that matter).

I'm planning on restoring a Pepper II this summer and would love to install a Teeter Torture PCB as well and a custom CP with a roller. Did we figure out what we might need to make a roller?

 

[p1899m]

] Did we figure out what we might need to make a roller?

unfortunately I didn't get the time last years CAX to get a look at the roller. All I could see by looking at the main board set was that it looked no different that pepper Ii or venture. I assume it just wires to a pcb for the spinner instead of a joystick. Probably pretty simple like arkanoid with wiring for left, right ,5v and gnd. Since the game stays stored until CAX I don't think it's likely anyone will be able to get a good pic of the roller before this years CAX. Ken said I could look at it last year but as I mentioned the timing didn't work our. I'm sure he has no issue letting someone take a look. We'll just have to wait until CAX unfortunately. In the mean time hopefully tornadoboy or myself will have time to throw the roms in an Exidy board and confirm it does work. I have reason to believe it should.

 

[ChompingQuarters]

unfortunately I didn't get the time last years CAX to get a look at the roller. All I could see by looking at the main board set was that it looked no different that pepper Ii or venture. I assume it just wires to a pcb for the spinner instead of a joystick. Probably pretty simple like arkanoid with wiring for left, right ,5v and gnd. Since the game stays stored until CAX I don't think it's likely anyone will be able to get a good pic of the roller before this years CAX. Ken said I could look at it last year but as I mentioned the timing didn't work our. I'm sure he has no issue letting someone take a look. We'll just have to wait until CAX unfortunately. In the mean time hopefully tornadoboy or myself will have time to throw the roms in an Exidy board and confirm it does work. I have reason to believe it should.

That's too bad because I tried to check it out at CAX but out of respect I didn't want to start opening up a machine to find out what made her tick!

 

[Tornadoboy]

Glad to see people are still interested in this project!

i also, like most, played this game at CAX years ago and was very impressed... fast action, seemingly high replay value, unique controls... this was back when the roms weren't available, so I just waited for the next year to get my fix... but i secretly wanted one (or "it" in this case)

Yeah aside from being a little exotic because of its mysterious origins it's an overall fun and original game, I'm really surprised it was never pursued further by Exidy, with a little refinement it could have become a classic!

I've got a possible Victory PCB project (amongst other things) cooking in the background and while doing research I took a peak at a flyer which supposedly shows its prototype, for what I can tell the spinner looks a LOT like what's in TT. I don't know what that gains us as Victory was released with a Tempest-like dial spinner, but it stands to reason whomever designed TT used whatever was on hand including left over prototype parts, so maybe Victory's spinner design could give us some clues. I thought of looking at other Exidy spinner games like Circus and Rip Cord but they use a potentiometer, clearly TT's roller uses optics.

Grrrrrrr... I've got to finishing rewiring my workroom and figure out my programmer so I can try this ROM swap, I'm dying to find out if it'll work.

BTW, if anybody has got a Victory I could use some decent, high-res pictures of the marquee, bezel and control panel, any help will be much appreciated.

 

[gwarble]

Glad to see people are still interested in this project!
Yeah aside from being a little exotic because of its mysterious origins it's an overall fun and original game, I'm really surprised it was never pursued further by Exidy, with a little refinement it could have become a classic!
...

Me too... more fun than a lot of games that made it to production in my opinion...

i'd like to see how this project progresses, and without any exidy hardware, nor the required knowhow, I can't really contribute in any other way than to get those with the means to keep going on the project by offering where I can help, which would be in machining the roller (maybe in vectorizing the artwork if anyone has interest)... If there is a prototype roller out there for Victory that could be a start, but i think CAX is the place to figure this out... if whoever from here knows the owner and is happy to give permission (the last thing i would want is to bother the owner of the rare piece... either with inconvenience or if he just doesnt want ppl in his machine... or even if he's selfish and doesnt want us to play teeter torture anywhere but CAX and mame...) i'd love to be there to get a feel for the inside of the roller, and i'll bring some calipers and can probably spec it out while there... but worst case someone needs to get pictures...


but the whole endeavor will only be worthwhile if the rom swap is feasible... so if someone is able to test it out in the next few months before CAX that would be awesome... of course we can always get the info at CAX anyway, but there would be more of a reason to

- gwarble

 

[p1899m]

BTW, if anybody has got a Victory I could use some decent, high-res pictures of the marquee, bezel and control panel, any help will be much appreciated.

pretty sure Anthony of Quarter Arcade still has a victory. I believe he posted pics when he offered it for sale here. Those may help or maybe he could snap some pics. I may also be able to get some but I'm not sure of the time frame since I would need to get to a friends place.

 

[p1899m]

Me too... more fun than a lot of games that made it to production in my opinion...

i'd like to see how this project progresses, and without any exidy hardware, nor the required knowhow, I can't really contribute in any other way than to get those with the means to keep going on the project by offering where I can help, which would be in machining the roller (maybe in vectorizing the artwork if anyone has interest)... If there is a prototype roller out there for Victory that could be a start, but i think CAX is the place to figure this out... if whoever from here knows the owner and is happy to give permission (the last thing i would want is to bother the owner of the rare piece... either with inconvenience or if he just doesnt want ppl in his machine... or even if he's selfish and doesnt want us to play teeter torture anywhere but CAX and mame...) i'd love to be there to get a feel for the inside of the roller, and i'll bring some calipers and can probably spec it out while there... but worst case someone needs to get pictures...


but the whole endeavor will only be worthwhile if the rom swap is feasible... so if someone is able to test it out in the next few months before CAX that would be awesome... of course we can always get the info at CAX anyway, but there would be more of a reason to

- gwarble

Unless Ken's opinion has changed I don't believe he will have an issue with taking a look in the machine. I also mentioned when I talked to him last year about this that my intention was to make another machine. he said he had no issue with this since the roms were already released by the IP holder and were available.

I would say I'm 100% sure a rom swap will make a bootable version of teeter torture although there is a question of if the rom set in MAME is identical to the rom set in the actual working board. I would assume it is since the game never went into production but it's just a guess with no real facts behind it. I believe the hard hat roms in MAME were from the prototype which allows a rom swap to create a bootable hard hat board that has collision issues. The HH MAME rom set has different music than the production board and also has one less rom than the production board has. If TT has a similar scenario we may have issues. I'm not sure where KEn stands with regards to allowing us to copy the exact roms from his board if the MAME roms turn out to be different.

 

[Tornadoboy]

pretty sure Anthony of Quarter Arcade still has a victory. I believe he posted pics when he offered it for sale here. Those may help or maybe he could snap some pics. I may also be able to get some but I'm not sure of the time frame since I would need to get to a friends place.

Actually I'm trying to work out a trade with him for one of his Victory boardsets and forgot he has the actual cab, I'll have to mention it to him.

 

[ChompingQuarters]

So, anyone get a chance to check out the guts of Teeter Torture at this years CAX?

 

[Tornadoboy]

I've got all the guts to a Victory cab now plus two Pepper II boardsets and two Venture, so the only real thing holding me back from trying a conversion at this point is getting my damn Willem 5.0c EPROM programmer to program the 2716 chips, which in my novice hands is being a serious pain.