Converting Classics to Multigames

pacray

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This is a discussion that was started in the FOR SALE section, that I thought I bring some focus to, and also change to the DISCUSSIONS forum, just in case anyone wanted to chime in.

I am guilty of turning classic games into Multigames. Most of the time, I find broken and banged up Pacmans and Ms Pacmans, completely restore them with new monitors, all new wiring, and all new side art. I put a Multigame board inside and sell them to folks who generally wouldn't buy a game that looked beat up, or that played just one game.

In my defense, I have on several occasions, come across an excellent specimen. In such cases, I have either done everything I could to keep the game original, or sometimes traded a nice looking game for one in poor condition, since I usually sand it down anyway.

My argument is this; a lot of the cabinets you find these days are so far gone that they are destined to end up as kindling. By taking such a game, restoring it to its former glory cosmetically, upgrading it to play 48 or 60 games, and selling it as a thing of value that is played by young and old, the hobby grows and stays alive. There are collectors who spend a lot of time, money, and space to grow a collection of games, and keep them working, and then there are those who want no more than one multigame, and that is all they will ever have. I wonder which is the bigger group.

So is it better to build new cabinets from scratch that look like classics? It certainly would be easier, and probably more cost effective. Or is there value in restoring the classics, even if it means putting a multigame board inside?
 

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I am one of the biggest complainers about people like you ............normally.

Point being made is that you try to keep it as close to original as possible.
YOu are taking something that is borderline dump material and reviving it.
I always preach curb appeal - you sure give em that!

I say no harm no foul at all.

But yes, for Multi's if it were cheaper to build the cabinets rather than restore then why in the hell would you waste your time restoring? Only a purist is going to give a shit if it's original.
 
My stance on this has remained pretty consistent over the years. When 50% or more of the original game is gone(and it's always the most expensive parts that are missing) the game automaticly gets scrapped for parts and the cabinet is sold cheap, crushed or given away to someone with a different vision. It makes no financial sense to put it back to its original form. I just gave away a dig dug and a gorf cabinet that i thought were going to be mamed or multi built and in the end the guy cut both cabinets up and made coffee tables out of em. If it's complete but needs more work than its worth, it gets scrapped. If its an Asteroids machine, it's a given it's gonna get scrapped. Keep doin what you're doin and milk it as long as you can, this hobby and the interest isn't gonna last forever.
 
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My job pays me to turn classics (popular and unpopular) into multis all the time. I have no choice in the matter (if I want a paycheck). People bring in a dead Ms. Pac for repair, and my boss talks them into upgrading it to a 48-in-1. If I don't do it, someone else will. I save boardsets, wiring harnesses, etc and sell them to DIYers who need them to save a non-working game.

Sometimes my boss will end up buying a game in order to convert it for a future sale. If it's a crap game (like Birdie King II) I have no problem with it, and save the parts I don't need. If it's something like a Midway Space Invaders (happened not long ago), I usually trade one of my crappy generic cabs in storage for it (after a quick paint job on the generic cab) so I can save the entire game. My boss doesn't care because he just wants a cab.

And now I have a Space Invaders, Gyruss, Q*Bert, Peter Packrat, etc because I didn't want to see them converted.

With all the talk about cabs being tossed in dumpsters after being parted out, I don't see how anyone can bitch anymore. It's no longer profitable to grab a crappy Pac cab and restore it for resale. The people who bitch aren't going to buy it for what you need to get. They aren't going to drive 100's of miles to take the crappy cab off your hands cheap. But they'll bitch if you don't spend all the money on it and then keep it forever, or sell at a loss....
 
Re:

I don't have a problem with multigames, I just can't stand it when people try to sell them for one million thousand dollars or make them into ugly MAME cabinets.
 
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I dont have problems with the making of multigames. A lot of times ill take completely junked cabinets, bad looking games or converted games and make them look like classics (only focus on Pacman, Galaga, Mspacman and Donkey Kong style cabs) and install the multigame kits in them.. But try to avoid killing any nice dedicated games, especially rare ones. I think thats what separates collectors from retailers.

The thread earlier was more pointed towards the huo (or almost huo) Star Trek you parted out. Thats something I couldnt do. Now if it was falling apart or in bad shape, i have no problem.. But one this nice? I couldnt do it, not as a collector. But lets face it, its probably happening all the time..

307299679_o.jpg



Now here is a game I parted out:

IMAG0002.JPG

IMAG0006.JPG


and another:

ff1.jpg

ff3.jpg


Jon
 
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I agree with Jon. I have no problem with people taking a converted Pac cab, fixing it up, and putting a multi-game board in it. I've even helped acquire such cabs for other people who I knew had that intent.

I do shake my head when people take a nice, original Ms Pac and convert it to a 60-in-1. I also get a bit disgusted when people take a nice classic game and part it out simply to make a few extra bucks.

I've only been involved in parting out 3 games over the years. One was an incomplete, dead Roadblasters with a busted-up, mouse-urine-soaked cabinet. One was a dead World Rally conversion in a disintegrating Mach 3 cockpit cabinet. The other was a partially-working Continental Circuit cockpit that was falling apart.

Just my $0.02.

Alan
 
I think it is great!!! For me being a noob to the arcade addiction, I would love to have them all but only have so much room. Now my buddies have seen the 60-1 and want one the wifes don't have a problem with it-thats a win win. I was telling them they can pick there favorite game and have it converted to the multi. The way I look at it is the same way as my Camaros I will hotrod them put not to the point where I cant take them back to original. It looks great you have more fun with them but it comes back to you didn't destroy a clasic.

Plus my son and his buddies like them better than the PS3 he is 9.
 
I dont have problems with the making of multigames. A lot of times ill take completely junked cabinets, bad looking games or converted games and make them look like classics (only focus on Pacman, Galaga, Mspacman and Donkey Kong style cabs) and install the multigame kits in them.. But try to avoid killing any nice dedicated games, especially rare ones. I think thats what separates collectors from retailers.

The thread earlier was more pointed towards the huo (or almost huo) Star Trek you parted out. Thats something I couldnt do. Now if it was falling apart or in bad shape, i have no problem.. But one this nice? I couldnt do it, not as a collector. But lets face it, its probably happening all the time..

307299679_o.jpg



Now here is a game I parted out:

IMAG0002.JPG

IMAG0006.JPG


and another:

ff1.jpg

ff3.jpg


Jon


Well put Jon, enough said.
 
As long as it's borderline dump I too am OK with making multis, but when it's a nice Ladybug, Kangaroo, Star Trek, Make Trax or Omega race nowhere near bad shape it's painful to see. Everyone will do whatever they are comfortable with depending on the money involved of course.

Although this thread makes it sound that way, beat up pac mans aren't the only thing he converts and it's those other things that I take issue with, not the no brainer rotten pacs.

And to think all this silliness began because I can't stop laughing about the garfield and kermit cab :)
 
I normally like to see a game restored to original. But people have to remember that these games that DO get turned into multi's were probably headed for the dump anyway; at least maybe some of them. I talked to a guy back in the late 90's who at that time had been working for a local vending company for 20 years. He said he personally scrapped 20 or more perfectly working Pac-Man machines in the late 80's because they no longer made money and there wasn't a soul out there that was going to buy one AND the operator had no room to keep extra "junk". That was ONE guy and ONE machine. Wow. So all these years later you can still find pac-man machines to restore(even though they made 100,000 of em) is seemingly amazing; along with any other game. Hell, a 48 in 1 at least gives you a ton of games and exposes more of the classics to the next generation, or for folks who don't have a lot of room its great.
 
Pacray you do very good work. Keep doing what your doing and by all means if you ever get a request to restore back to normal for a customer, then by all means do it at that time. What you do IMO doesnt hurt and only enhances the game/hobby!
 
I normally like to see a game restored to original. But people have to remember that these games that DO get turned into multi's were probably headed for the dump anyway; at least maybe some of them. I talked to a guy back in the late 90's who at that time had been working for a local vending company for 20 years. He said he personally scrapped 20 or more perfectly working Pac-Man machines in the late 80's because they no longer made money and there wasn't a soul out there that was going to buy one AND the operator had no room to keep extra "junk". That was ONE guy and ONE machine. Wow. So all these years later you can still find pac-man machines to restore(even though they made 100,000 of em) is seemingly amazing; along with any other game. Hell, a 48 in 1 at least gives you a ton of games and exposes more of the classics to the next generation, or for folks who don't have a lot of room its great.

I know of an operator in San Jose CA that trashed over 1,000 Defenders in the late 80's for the same reason as the Pac's above. The ops I worked for ran out of room to keep these games around so if they werent conversion worthy they got scrapped. I've personally scrapped over 200+ games in my 25 year career.

Back to the topic. Converting beat to hell classics to multi's is fine and so is converting not beat to hell classics. Only the die hard collectors are going to have issues with this sort of thing. In the past when I've been asked to convert a nice classic to a Multi I've done my best to keep it as close to factory as possible so it can be converted back if need be.

Matt
 
I agree with Jon and Brian and very well put. Parting out a game like Star Trek that is a hard find in good condition is not acceptable. I hate when classics get parted, mamed or multied unless they are trashed to begin with. There are plenty of middle year generic cabs or converted cabs that can be used.
 
Recently I bought a couple of classic, original machines from a vendor who offered a multi-game upgrade for them.

When I declined the upgrade, he was incredulous. "Why on earth wouldn't you want the upgrade? You keep the same game, get 59 others, more reliable hardware, etc."

I explained the concept of original hardware, machines, and what they meant to collectors. He didn't get it. Not for a second. Uphill battle, to be sure.

There's someone in SoCal selling a converted Donkey Kong with a horizontal monitor, MAME, and X-Arcade controls for near $2K. Calls it "Smithsonian-quality". Right. I don't think the Spirit of St. Louis would've made it into the Smithsonian with a jet engine strapped to the wing.
 
This is a really good thread, and I like hearing both sides. While it pains me some to see nice games multi'd, I really admire the beautiful games that Ray makes.

To probably beat a dead horse, I wanted to state again that I owe Jon Exidy an apology for my comments yesterday. I read the thread way too fast, mixed comments of others with him, and flew off the handle. I honestly habor no bad feelings towards Jon & consider him a friend and good guy in the hobby. He did not deserve the accusations / poor comparisions I made in the thread, and hope he will see past it. Jon, you have made some similar, personal comments about me in PM, and you are right & your have every right to say that. I am trying to extend the olive branch as a responsible adult & friend, and hope that you can feel the same. We can keep stewing and reading the post over and over, and I can read your comments over and over, but let's move on.



Recently I bought a couple of classic, original machines from a vendor who offered a multi-game upgrade for them.

When I declined the upgrade, he was incredulous. "Why on earth wouldn't you want the upgrade? You keep the same game, get 59 others, more reliable hardware, etc."

I explained the concept of original hardware, machines, and what they meant to collectors. He didn't get it. Not for a second. Uphill battle, to be sure.

There's someone in SoCal selling a converted Donkey Kong with a horizontal monitor, MAME, and X-Arcade controls for near $2K. Calls it "Smithsonian-quality". Right. I don't think the Spirit of St. Louis would've made it into the Smithsonian with a jet engine strapped to the wing.
 
I say that if you own the game, do with it what you want. Who cares what someone else thinks?

Too many people live their lives to please others. Do what you want and don't care if it pleases the next guy.
 
I don't care about any of this really, I was just having fun giggling about some dolphins and cartoon characters on a multigame for gods sake. Come on now, tell me that if you saw some random multi from someone you didn't know on craigslist and it had artwork on it that was so bizarre and unrelated to games you wouldn't have a laugh at it. Matter of fact, if memory serves, there were a number of threads right here on KLOV about the craigslist ads for the games i'm joking about (not posted by me). I think even Ray knows this, he was new to multis at the time and made some goofy choices that he obviously doesn't do anymore because he learned. Doesn't make it any less funny over time tho :)

I get beat up on constantly over a Circus Charlie overlay I screwed up years ago because well, yea, it's funny. I'm the butt of the joke, but it's still funny.

Separate what my original intent of having a laugh was from what this all became. I didn't ask for the whole justification of multis and the differences of opinion over what to part and what not to part to happen. That to me is a fair debate, but a separate issue from what started it all. Sorry if Ray doesn't have the ability to laugh at himself sometimes for silly stuff in the past, there was never anything personal intended then and there isn't now. On the topic of parting nice games, well, i'm pretty solid on my stance that we as collectors should not do that and it doesn't matter if it's ray or ronald mcdonald. Also don't mix the terms collectors and dealers, collectors should not kill, dealers do what they must to survive. The question is, are you a collector or a dealer?

So, last time i'll say it, i was kidding and i'm sorry it got out of hand. If people still want to make it more than it is, so be it.
 
Amen Brian, and my apologies to you as well. I like your attitude about it & really appreciate it. I hope we can all laugh it off...especially my inexcusable, dumbass bull in a chinashop rant...and all go back to being game pals. But I understand if not :(


I don't care about any of this really, I was just having fun giggling about some dolphins and cartoon characters on a multigame for gods sake. Come on now, tell me that if you saw some random multi from someone you didn't know on craigslist and it had artwork on it that was so bizarre and unrelated to games you wouldn't have a laugh at it. Matter of fact, if memory serves, there were a number of threads right here on KLOV about the craigslist ads for the games i'm joking about (not posted by me). I think even Ray knows this, he was new to multis at the time and made some goofy choices that he obviously doesn't do anymore because he learned. Doesn't make it any less funny over time tho :)

I get beat up on constantly over a Circus Charlie overlay I screwed up years ago because well, yea, it's funny. I'm the butt of the joke, but it's still funny.

Separate what my original intent of having a laugh was from what this all became. I didn't ask for the whole justification of multis and the differences of opinion over what to part and what not to part to happen. That to me is a fair debate, but a separate issue from what started it all. Sorry if Ray doesn't have the ability to laugh at himself sometimes for silly stuff in the past, there was never anything personal intended then and there isn't now. On the topic of parting nice games, well, i'm pretty solid on my stance that we as collectors should not do that and it doesn't matter if it's ray or ronald mcdonald. Also don't mix the terms collectors and dealers, collectors should not kill, dealers do what they must to survive. The question is, are you a collector or a dealer?

So, last time i'll say it, i was kidding and i'm sorry it got out of hand. If people still want to make it more than it is, so be it.
 
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