CC Sound Stage Tracking Down the Issues

Deverezieaux

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Donor 5 years: 2013, 2020-2022, 2025
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My Father-in-Law last month decided to bestow on me his Chicago Coin Sound Stage that's been in a garage since 1985. He got it from an Ice Rink where it sat outdoors with broken glass for several years before it finally crapped out. He never turned it on or tested it after he got it. I haven't worked on a pin in 18 years, and never an EM. Aside from a mouse nest by the transformer and what looked like used motor oil someone spilled on the coin door and back glass (it sat on it's back for most of the time it was garaged) after some elbow grease it looks salvageable.

I've gone through the full guidance on http://www.pinrepair.com/em/ and some other threads, though I focused on the core items. I wanted to exhaust that and any obvious fixes before I reached out for guidance. I should point out that clearly someone tried to repair this at some point back in the 80s but from what I've seen they had no idea how to.

Here's a rundown of what I've done so far, I'll try to be in order and point out changes in behavior:
1. Cleaned out the major mess and any obvious dirt/goop with isopropyl and qtips.
2. Replaced the damaged plug.
3. Checked and cleaned the fuses and fuse holders, and did a bit of filing for good contact.
4. After first power up the coin door buzzed.
5. With a thorough cleaning with with isopropyl and qtips (the motor oil had seeped inside the mechanism) and some minor adjustment the buzz stopped and the coils look good.
6. Checked and cleaned the lock relay. It looks good and engages on power up.
7. Tested the score motor, at first when turned it would return to reset position.
8. Found the 00-90 relay D27-1000 coil wires were disconnected and the coil was burned out. Replaced them.
9. Found that the 2nd player score 00-90 score reel solenoid wires were disconnected and the solenoid had been remounted backwards. Fixed this.
10. Since I was already in there I disassembled and cleaned all of the solenoids, bakelights, fingers for the score reels.
11. Realized that the 100,000 1 and 2 player relay coils were in bad shape and the first player coil was cracked. Replaced with Z28 1200's which were recommended.
12. Gave all the stepper units another more thorough cleaning. Also noticed a disconnected spring on the ball count relay stepper.
13. During this I realized someone had replaced one of the bonus unit arm pivots with a bolt and square nuts, so it was misaligned and wouldn't step properly. I fabricated a replacement.
14. Found that the right flipper was not mounted properly, apparently for a while as it wore a slight groove in the playfield. I don't think this was affecting startup.

There may have been some other things I forgot but those are the major steps.

Now I haven't gone through and sanded/filed every contact as the guidance seems to recommend against that unless they look obviously bad. I've only sanded those that looked particularly crusty.

Here's where I'm at. The back box and playfield both power up. The lock relay engages. There is no buzzing or humming or obvious sparking. The score motor continually spins, though I know this is a symptom, not the cause. The score reels don't seem to do anything either when set to 0 or advanced to other numbers. The credit unit will not set to 0, the closest it will get is to 1. I suspect it's misaligned. Here's the thing I can't find any reference to: when the machine starts and the score reel begins spinning the credit unit will count up to 8, the point at which the top switch on the credit unit is opened. Here's a video: https://youtu.be/gGHKpmZjZzQ. You can also hear the score motor spinning.

I'd appreciate any guidance on the next step to tracking down the culprit or culprits.

I've included some other pics for reference as well.

As usual thanks for any guidance VAPS members.
 

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All the score reels need to reset to zero and the 0 to 9 switch is engaged otherwise the game will always continually try to reset the scores to zero while you play. I would recommend cleaning those switches and making sure they operate correctly usually you do you have to take out the score reels take them apart and clean them which it sounds like you already have and make sure those switches operate exactly. Once you can get the score reels to start resetting to zero that's a major improvement and then get them to stay on zero and the game start and serve the ball in the runway
 
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Made some progress, I think.

Well I cleaned the score reels again, twice actually and the action seems good. I'm not sure just how smooth it needs to be. They have a good "snapping" action. That being said, they still don't advance. Found a couple more broken wires, one was actually to the player reset relay which I thought may have been a game changer, pun intended, but fixing that didn't cause any change in behavior.

I've gotten to the point of inspecting each switch and filing the most crusty with a flexstone. I know this is not the best approach. After filing a couple I turn the machine back on and note changes in behavior.

The good: the score motor will still spin and the credit reel will still count up, but the score motor actually stops now after the credit reel counts up a couple of notches. It doesn't just spin endlessly. Still not sure how these two are affecting each other. I'm also not sure exactly how to set this particular game to free play. http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#free doesn't cover CC games. Anyone know this on CCs?

The bad: the playfield no longer lights when the left flipper is pressed. Previously, the backbox would light up when I powered on, and the playfield would light when I hit the left flipper. Now the backbox lights when the left flipper is pressed, but not the playfield.

The weird: for one brief moment I heard the relays below the score reels humming like they were thinking about doing something.

Anyway, I enjoy working on it. It's a shift from my arcade cabs, but as always a little guidance from those more familiar with EMs is appreciated.
 
When the game thinks the score reels are reset to 0, the score motor stops running. So when you say the score reels count a couple notches then stop, are they stopping at zero or somewhere in the middle?

If not at zero, your 9th position switch on whichever score reels aren't resetting to zero, is closing prematurely.

Now, do the playfield lights come on at all? If not, maybe a blown fuse? Also, have you cleaned the jones plugs going into the backbox, and down on the bottom board?

There are schematics listed for this on the internet. However, it's late at night after a long day of work, so my eyes looking at a schematic is driving me crazy. :) On your credit unit, there is a switch that "tells" the game there are zero credits when it's open. Just close that switch and you will have free play. If you take a look at the credit unit, whatever switch opens up when the credits are at zero, is the one you need to have closed all the time.

-Pat
 
Hey Pat, thanks for the reply again. It's not the score reels that move, but the credit stepper. That's what's left me so perplexed. I haven't heard of the credit stepper moving in relation to the score motor. The score reels don't move, not even a tick.

As for the molex connectors, cleaning and checking those was one of the first things I did. It's a habit from working on dirty arcade cabs.

Fuses are all good. I'd already checked em with the meter and replaced the really dirty ones, even though they were technically good.

As for you last point, there's actually no switch that opens when the credits are at zero. That's what led me to think the credit stepper was adjusted incorrectly early on. It will step down to 1, but not zero. This leaves it just one click from opening the bottom switch. That said, you've given me an idea on this and I'm going to try adjusting the credit stepper and opening the bottom switch. I'll come back with an update.
 
When the game resets, the credit unit will subtract (step down) one credit. So it shouldn't be pulsing, it should only take one credit away.

There is a switch, probably on the score motor somewhere, you'll have to look at the schematic, that pulses in relation to advancing the score reels to get them to zero. I have a Flipper Clown in which my switch burned up, and I've just been putting it off replacing because it's in a ridiculously hard to reach area. Check the schematic for whatever score motor switch advances the score reels when they're resetting to zero.

-Pat

Hey Pat, thanks for the reply again. It's not the score reels that move, but the credit stepper. That's what's left me so perplexed. I haven't heard of the credit stepper moving in relation to the score motor. The score reels don't move, not even a tick.

As for the molex connectors, cleaning and checking those was one of the first things I did. It's a habit from working on dirty arcade cabs.

Fuses are all good. I'd already checked em with the meter and replaced the really dirty ones, even though they were technically good.

As for you last point, there's actually no switch that opens when the credits are at zero. That's what led me to think the credit stepper was adjusted incorrectly early on. It will step down to 1, but not zero. This leaves it just one click from opening the bottom switch. That said, you've given me an idea on this and I'm going to try adjusting the credit stepper and opening the bottom switch. I'll come back with an update.
 
Based on your suggestion Pat, I took a look at the score motor schematic. I decided to give all the score motor cams and switches the full once over using the schematic in the cabinet, and I think I found something significant. Switches c-1 through c-5 are supposed to be as follows: c-1: open, c-2: open, c-3:closed, c-4: open, c-5:closed, in their starting state. They are not. They appear to be permanently in their opposite state. Rotating the motor by hand I can see that the L shaped arm that is supposed to change their state is either too short, or not aligned correctly, and never touches the cam, so they will never change state as the cam rotates. Not sure how to adjust this.

In the meantime I've run into another issue. The lock relay has suddenly stopped engaging. I didn't do anything to it, and I checked all the leads/fuses and they seem fine. It may have just finally crapped out.
 

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I haven't worked on a chicago coin score motor. I briefly had a Stern Rawhide, but got it working without having to touch the score motor.

Anyways, on the Gottliebs, there is something called a "switch dog". It is an armature that pushes against the switches, and against the score motor "notches" when the motor spins to close those switches. It sounds like you may have found your problem, if the Chi Coins use the same type of switch dog.

-Pat

Edit, it does look like you have the switch dog. Just make sure that as you spin it by hand it is pushing all the switches with the little tabs. The switches look like they are correct. C1 is normally closed (n.c.), C2 is n.c., C3 is normally open (n.o.), C4 is n.c., C5 is n.o.

Do you have jumper wires? If you do, you can bridge C-2 and see if it steps up the 1000 pt relay.

Also, I took a look at the schematic here: ("https://ia600500.us.archive.org/20/items/soundstageschematics/Sound_Stage_Schematics.pdf") On the lock relay itself, there is an switch that is normally closed all the time when the relay energizes to keep it energized. It's the switch that has an orange-green to green-black wire going to it. If you jumper across those 2 wires (switch tabs) the lock relay should engage. I would specifically try cleaning that switch or making sure it is adjusted correctly.
 
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Think I finally found the main problem. The leaf switch spring blade on the bottom of C-1 that pushes the switch dog snapped off at some point in the past, so that whole switch stack never changes state. My next step is trying to find the right replacement for the C-1 switch leaf. Looking right now.
 
Thanks for the heads up Rod. I actually temporarily swapped one of the leaves from C7 to the bottom of C1 and I am delighted to say I played my first game of Chicago Coin sound stage. I should say partial game, because some items still need adjusting. Most of the score reels still seem sticky, the right flipper is jammed, the ball kicker seems dead so I had to load balls by hand, and a few other things, but the majority of playfield items seemed functional. I have to give it a full check through, but this was a huge step.
 
I was unable to duplicate how I got the game to start yesterday, so I've been starting it by manually tripping the game start relay. This resets the score reels and starts a new game. Think there's something up with credits being counted and allowing the game to start correctly. I believe I have it set to free play, but pressing the start button has no effect. I'll be looking into that.

There's also an issue with the DC components on the playfield, which I believe are the pop bumpers and ball kicker. It may be just the fuse for these, or the capacitor/bridge may need replacing. It was very satisfying to play a game and see most of the components responding just fine, in fact the action seems pretty crisp on most.
 
Great job! Now you're getting somewhere. Keep us posted to the status.

-Pat
 
Anyone know where I can get just replacement leaf springs for em pinballs switches? I ordered some from Marco specialties last night, but they just informed me they're out of stock.

While I'm at it can anyone point me to a bridge rectifier and capacitor that fits the bill from the attached image? I tested the rectifier and it's got some bad legs. This is what I'm thinking of getting for the rectifier: https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Recti...kmr0&keywords=25+amp+200+piv+bridge+rectifier
 

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Hey gang, I replaced the bridge rectifier and fuse, but no dice on getting the ball kicker or pop bumpers to function. Anyone have thoughts about what else may be affecting these DC components?

Update: looks like I spoke too soon. The left pop bumper works, but only when depressed and held. I'm going to pull them apart and clean them up. Still no action on the ball kicker though.

Update again, and with some filing and cleaning both pop bumpers are as snappy as the day they were made. Now to the ball kicker.
 
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Okay, I've made some great progress in figuring out what's actually working using the attached schematics as a guide.

The ball kicker and all the stepper units do work if I trip their respective relays. I still can't quite get a game to start unless I trip the game start relay, and the ball kicker won't kick unless I trip the out hole relay. The ball count stepper unit also won't count balls unless I trip the ball index relay and then the ball count relay manually when the game is active. All of the mechanical parts work, but something in the game start sequence isn't happening.

I can power on with the left flipper, coin up, but pressing start doesn't do anything, unless the start game relay has already been tripped. Then the start button will allow me to add a second player and will decrement the credit reel. Balls won't kick out, and the ball count relay won't increment/decrement, though all of the playfield mechanics work, as do all the score reels. So I can play, but I never lose a ball, so the game never ends or switches players.

Anyone have guidance on which step in the startup process might be getting hung up?
 

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The white orange wire on the credit button engages the start relay. I'm getting this from #3 section #24 in the middle. If the credit button is not engaging the start relay, follow the schematic to the right and see where you're losing it. (credit unit post, game over relay, etc)

-Pat
 
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After weeks of checking and re-checking relays, I stared at the cam diagram and realized the cams on the motor are stopping about a half inch past the home position. I moved them back manually after starting and sure enough I could start a game using the start button. I tried adjusting the cams using the cam screw, but they still stop in the same incorrect position. Anyone know what kind of adjustment is needed?
 
After some more research it seems that coasting is not an uncommon problem, and my score motor seems to be coasting. The A1 motor run switch is gapped correctly and opening when it's supposed to, but the cams coast about another 10 degrees. I've included pics of where the cams should stop, and where they actually stop marked in red. It's not enough to start the motor spinning again, but enough to open C6 and C7 which screws up the sequence. I've found some good guidance on Williams and Gottlieb machines, but nothing on coasting CCMs. One thing I thought is that cam 1 appears worn down compared to other cams I've seen from other CCM machines, but I'm not sure if this matters. I included a pic of it as well so I could get an expert opinion.
 

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You've done very well tracking down this problem. At this point, if it were me, I'd try to find another score motor or set of cams without this problem.

Some of the guys on Pinside or RGP may have more insight as to what can be done, but I don't know of any Chicago Coin gurus. :(

Good luck!

-Pat
 
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