Can someone scan their Super Punch-Out marquee?

I got it scanned, and I vectorized it.

Here's a small raster version:

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The vector file is all color separated, and has traps and bleeds. It is ready for screen printing if Rich wants to do it.
 
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Rich, how is the white typically done on a translight marquee like this? The original SPO marquee has two methods of achieving white. The outline of the Punch-Out!! text is white ink, but the rest of the whites don't seem to have any ink at all, aside from the translight layer:

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That's a picture of the back side of the marquee. You can see that the Nintendo text has no ink (or at least it doesn't appear to have any), while the Punch-Out!! text has white ink, complete with traps and bleeds for the surrounding blue, green, and black.

When viewed from the front, they both appear white. However, when backlit, the inked white outline of the Punch-Out!! text appears off-white because it is more opaque; while the rest of the whites appear white.

So how should I build the vector file? Should I have white objects for the whites, or should I leave the whites blank; i.e.; as cutouts out of the surrounding colors? Or should I do it the same as it appears to have been done in the original printing; i.e., blank cutouts for all the whites except for the Punch-Out!! text outline; which is a white object with traps and bleeds?

One more thing; when screen printing a marquee like this; is it reverse printed directly onto the backside of the plexi, or is it printed normally onto tranlight material and then somehow stuck to the back side of the plexi? I ask because there are parts on this marquee where blacks appear to have been printed over reds; "over" as viewed from the front; which would be impossible with reverse screen printing onto the backside of the plexi. It might just be an illusion though.
 

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from the above pic (asumming you flipped it) this is the back side from printed on 1/8" clear plexi??

looks like they just printed 2 different whites 1 opaque white and one a standard white
dont know why other than to make those parts more opquae.
if thats the case a sperate white screen would be needed with same trap/bleed as other spot colors, the thinner white would be full pass on the back.

without seeing one and again asuming they only had one version I cant tell for sure.
other later nintendo marquees were laminted and yellowed R-type for example.
 
Hmmm.... I had a cleaned up one I did a few months back I could have uploaded to anyone anytime...

:)
 
from the above pic (asumming you flipped it) this is the back side from printed on 1/8" clear plexi??

Yes I flipped it. It is the original SPO marquee; printed onto the backside of 1/8" clear plexi.

looks like they just printed 2 different whites 1 opaque white and one a standard white
dont know why other than to make those parts more opquae.
if thats the case a sperate white screen would be needed with same trap/bleed as other spot colors, the thinner white would be full pass on the back.

Okay, that makes sense. They definitely didn't trap/bleed for the small stuff like the copyright lettering or Nintendo logo, so I assumed that was a full pass over the black that has those letters cut out of it. In fact, there is no trap/bleed for any of the white aside from the opaque white of the "Punch-Out" text outline. So there would definitely need to be a full pass of white in there somewhere.

Would replicating the separate white screen process really be necessary though? I think the results would be better without it (plus it would be one less screen that needs to be used). When backlit, the opaque white doesn't look as good as the rest of the whites; because it ends up looking off-white in comparison. They probably had to do it that way because of the colors in the "Punch-Out" text needed traps/bleeds (the other whites are just solid whites with no colors printed within their borders).

Hmmm.... I had a cleaned up one I did a few months back I could have uploaded to anyone anytime...

:)

I think the scan I was originally sent may have been yours. I needed a raw scan. "Cleaned up" is good for inkjet printing, but not as a base for a vector trace. Also, it was the wrong size (25" x 5.29" wide rather than 23-9/16" x 5"). The DPI was lower than I like to work with (300 DPI; I prefer 600); and some of the original text had been replaced with typed text which wasn't an exact match (I prefer to trace letters manually if I don't have an exact matching font).

The main problem with it was this:

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That looks like autotrace output to me (e.g., Vector Magic).

This is what my trace looks like in the same area:

4602331228_787643558f_o.png


Since a vector file is needed for decent screen printing results; it only makes sense to start the trace from a raw scan (600 DPI preferably) rather than one that's been cleaned up for 300 DPI inkjet printing.
 
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Yes I flipped it. It is the original SPO marquee; printed onto the backside of 1/8" clear plexi.



Okay, that makes sense. They definitely didn't trap/bleed for the small stuff like the copyright lettering or Nintendo logo, so I assumed that was a full pass over the black that has those letters cut out of it. In fact, there is no trap/bleed for any of the white aside from the opaque white of the "Punch-Out" text outline. So there would definitely need to be a full pass of white in there somewhere.

Would replicating the separate white screen process really be necessary though? I think the results would be better without it (plus it would be one less screen that needs to be used). When backlit, the opaque white doesn't look as good as the rest of the whites; because it ends up looking off-white in comparison. They probably had to do it that way because of the colors in the "Punch-Out" text needed traps/bleeds (the other whites are just solid whites with no colors printed within their borders).

My guess is that they didnt want that white outline to back light as bright so the lettering would stand out better. havnt seen the whole back but would also guess its only the outline of Punchout. which BTW looks like from the pic the stars are Black and the vector is white, am I seeing that right?
 
My guess is that they didnt want that white outline to back light as bright so the lettering would stand out better. havnt seen the whole back but would also guess its only the outline of Punchout. which BTW looks like from the pic the stars are Black and the vector is white, am I seeing that right?

The stars are done the same way as the other whites (aside from the opaque Punch-Out outline). I can see why you are seeing it that way, but it is an illusion. If you hold the marquee up to the light, there is nothing but white there, exactly the same as the Nintendo logo, etc. They are part of the full pass of thinner white, and are defined by star-shaped cutouts in the blue (top half of the Punch-Out text) screen/layer. I can build the vector file to match the original printing process.

It looks to me like it was done this way:

1. White outline (traps blue, green, and surrounding black)
2. Green (bottom of "Punch-Out" text, trap for blue and white outline)
3. Blue (top of "Punch-Out" text, bleeds to green, traps white outline, contains star-shaped cutouts)
4. Metallic silver ("Super" text outline, traps surrounding red and black)
5. Red (bleeds onto silver, traps black)
6. Black (bleeds onto white outline, silver, and red; contains cutout for Nintendo logo, TM, copyright, etc.)
7. Full pass of white

Number 4 could come before or after 1 through 3; it doesn't matter. The original printer actually screened black twice (once in a limited area surrounding the red "fire", and again as a larger pass, containing the cutouts for the white Nintendo logo, etc.), but I'm not sure the point of that; it doesn't make any visual difference when viewed from the front (you can see it looking at the back though).
 
Cant see any reason for 2 black setups here
and Black would screen first

Here's an image that shows the two black screens:

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Like I said, that is not visible from the front. I have no idea why they did it that way.

I'll email you the whole scan of the back; maybe you can figure out exactly what they did and in what order.
 

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You think you could send me the file so I could play around with it?

Not yet. I'm still fiddling with it myself. I've decided that I want to correct the geometry on the "Punch-Out" text. Printing errors resulted in some minor geometric distortion, which is particularly noticeable on the Punch-Out text because it is made up of basic straight line shapes. Also, I want to see what is going on with the possible printing before I release the file. It will eventually end up on Vectorlib, the same as the SPO "Super" sideart that I did.
 
Here's an image that shows the two black screens:

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Like I said, that is not visible from the front. I have no idea why they did it that way.

I'll email you the whole scan of the back; maybe you can figure out exactly what they did and in what order.

From this pic that looks like the red overprint on the black so seems like its just ALOT of bleed on that red making it look like a 2nd black pass/setup.
reds pretty transparent Ill take a look at the full scan but pretty sure thats what your seeing if that makes sense?
 
From this pic that looks like the red overprint on the black so seems like its just ALOT of bleed on that red making it look like a 2nd black pass/setup.
reds pretty transparent Ill take a look at the full scan but pretty sure thats what your seeing if that makes sense?

Ah, yeah; that makes sense. They must have done that because of all the little red "islands" in the "fire"; so instead of making little red blotches that exactly match up with the "island" cutouts in the black layer, they just bled the red out in a big perimeter that covered it all. It would be easy for me to build the vector file the same way. I think I have a fairly accurate idea of how it all was layed out originally now (my erroneous thinking that the red went on before the black was throwing me off).
 
I believe this matches the original printing procedure:

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Do you agree, Rich?

BTW, the extra white screen for the outline is completely necessary (I realized that as I was building the file); unless one wanted to attempt perfect registration (no traps/bleeds) on the blue and green.
 
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I believe this matches the original printing procedure:

4605196078_e95617bccc_o.png


Do you agree, Rich?

BTW, the extra white screen for the outline is completely necessary (I realized that as I was building the file); unless one wanted to attempt perfect registration (no traps/bleeds) on the blue and green.

Ahh yes your correct sir thats why that white is so opquae so any misalignment from where the blue and green intersect/overlap dosnt show.

The only change would be the silver would definatly be 2nd color
followed by the red which bleeds over and is more transperant than the silver
 
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