Buying and selling ethics - you decide

Deadly

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I'd like to ask everyone to offer their insight and opinions about a few things I've personally dealt with lately. I've had 3 back to back purchase failures recently and to be blunt I'm starting to get upset about this and would like input from others before I go and leave feedback for these people. If I've done something wrong please feel free to point it out.

KLOV'er lists game for sale. I call NAVL and get an estimate. I correspond with seller eventually making an offer explaining it would be picked up and he'd have to do nothing. I also told the seller up front I felt bad about the price I offered but I only had so much money to spend and the shipping was a killer. I'm HONEST and up front about the whole deal. The seller says he'd accept the offer and was going out of town and would return Tuesday. Said we'd hammer out the details.
Mean while I'm working with KLOV'er Fibonacci to arrange a possible pickup for me. I'll spare the details.
I email the seller first thing Tuesday morning and he responds stating that over the weekend his friend came and fixed all of his games and now doesn't want to sell it. So not only has he wasted my time but a fellow KLOV'ers time as well. Really - you were going out of town but yet you had a friend fix your games for you? Maybe he left a key for his friend but if he had intentions of selling this he wouldn't of even asked his friend to work on it right? I bet some other freakin KLOV'er offered more and fucked the deal up is my best guess. Do I have a right to be angered about this?

Next up - I had purchased a couple board sets that were described as non working. Received the boards to find out the boards are missing the (proprietary) separator/standoffs in between the boards and one board set is missing a proprietary piece that without it renders the entire board set useless as a whole. The seller has been very nice and offered a small refund. The problem is the refund doesn't even cover half the replacement cost of the missing piece. I have stated this and the seller appears to not want to refund anymore than previously offered. I feel horrible about the whole thing but I paid for two non working board sets not two non working missing parts board sets.
I feel the right thing for the seller to do is to refund the amount it'll cost to replace missing items . Am I out of line on this one?
 
First Deal: best to just move on. Sure it sucks for you, but he is well within his right to change his mind, just like you would have been well within your right to change your mind.

2nd Deal: They were listed non-working. You should have inquired a bit more as to why, or gotten a picture. If you paid a non-working price, then you got what you paid for.

I just sold a working board that ended up having an unknown board error. I refunded the buyer a chunk of change, which put me to basically giving it away. Odds are after shipping, this seller would be in the same boat.
 
I think the key to success is for the sellers to be more descriptive and/or accurate in their posts...

accuracy2.jpg


(yes, I just wanted an excuse to use the image)
 
@Frizz - lmao awesome!

I should add the seller did say after the purchase that he was sure they were complete but non working. I guess I'll have to also bring in the part opf the story where he had another boardset shipped from someone else which he claimed was sold as a working boardset to this person - then in return had the person ship me the non working boardset which is the one missing parts.

@Shardian - so you're telling me a s abuyer I also need to ask if they might have painted the boards blue or pink? Or should I assume they are the normal green? Sarcastic for sure - but seriously at what point do you have to get every freakin detail?
 
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First offer: Yes it's tough but seller has right to change his mind. The deal is not finalized until the seller has cash in hand. To me if he accepted your offer than sold it to someone who offered more, that would be more of a kick in the balls than some seller's remorse.

Second offer: I don't know if this was an ebay or CL ad or whatever, but you should know what your buying before you make payment. Did you see a picture? If you were misled then you are in the right, but I guess I would have to know more details to give an honest impartial opinion.
 
People like to vent on klov about deals that fall through and that's fine, but really there's no point in getting worked up over it. Deals fall through sometimes. Disappointing for sure, but really what's the big deal? There's a reason people advise you to get a game loaded as fast as you can before a seller changes his mind for whatever reason. Not much value in speculating about what happened. You just move on and hopefully it works out the next time.

As for the boards, "non-working" to me doesn't necessarily imply "complete". It certainly would have been ideal if the seller stated "not complete" but I think you need to do some due diligence before buying. There's not a whole lot you can assume with a board listed as "non-working". As irritated as you are (and I would be too), I think the mistake is on you.

EDIT: didn't see your post that stated the word "complete" was used. That of course changes things somewhat, but heck, you didn't even ask for a picture?
 
Yeah, sometimes deals fall through, and it's annoying, but it's a fact of life. I've had these sorts of things happen to me before too.

The thing that gets me is the "non-working" boardsets arriving missing parts. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for that. Non-working means just that - not working. You wouldn't advertise a car without it's engine as "non-working", or a game with no monitor as "plays blind". There is a HUGE difference between "this is broken", and "this is missing it's most vital parts".

In the first case, you were frustrated, but not out any actual money. But in the second case, you're definitely out money - you were scammed, in a sense.

-Ian
 
Ok so far what I can see is - the deal falling though sucks for sure but to stop whining ... got it.

The boardsets - the mindset you all have of getting pictures first I don;pt understand you're thinking. I know what the damn board set looks like and the word complete from Websters means:
1 a : having all necessary parts, elements, or steps

So once again it's something I'm being petty about and need to let the seller off the hook. Ok got it.
 
To clarify what I said, there would be no excuse for intentionally not mentioning that critical parts are missing, but if the seller wasn't aware of it (e.g. doesn't know anything about the board or didn't examine it closely) then the seller gets a pass. However, I still think it is the buyer's responsibility to do their best to know what they're getting, and not getting a picture indicates to me that you assumed too much.

EDIT: I'm not suggesting the seller is "off the hook" but I wouldn't say you are either. I'm actually forgetting again that you said you were told "complete", so that is certainly a critical part of this. I think both sides "messed up" a bit. But if you were intentionally misled then most of it falls on him.
 
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I just prefer to do my best to eliminate communication problems when dealing online, so even if I knew what the board looked like, I'd want a pic just to be 100% sure I'm getting what I think I'm getting.
 
Yeah, sometimes deals fall through, and it's annoying, but it's a fact of life. I've had these sorts of things happen to me before too.

The thing that gets me is the "non-working" boardsets arriving missing parts. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for that. Non-working means just that - not working. You wouldn't advertise a car without it's engine as "non-working", or a game with no monitor as "plays blind". There is a HUGE difference between "this is broken", and "this is missing it's most vital parts".

In the first case, you were frustrated, but not out any actual money. But in the second case, you're definitely out money - you were scammed, in a sense.

-Ian

+1 on all points. It sure sounds like you got scammed, either by the original seller or by the second-hand dude. Somebody knew you were going to get the shaft before the deal was done. In either case the seller should not have allowed the deal to go down that way - with a third party involved. I think the responsibility rests on the seller's shoulders. If it were me I'd be asking for a full refund. Non-working /= incomplete IMHO.

So what part was missing, LETA, Potato Chip, or Quad Pokey? :D
 
The boardsets - the mindset you all have of getting pictures first I don;pt understand you're thinking. I know what the damn board set looks like and the word complete from Websters means:
1 a : having all necessary parts, elements, or steps

So once again it's something I'm being petty about and need to let the seller off the hook. Ok got it.

If I don't know that the seller is someone who should be knowledgeable enough to know exactly what the board looks like, I always ask for pictures. If it's Ebay, I assume the seller knows dick and that the pictures are fuzzy for a reason and bid accordingly. It has taken several expensive lessons before I've formulated this mindset. Many (not all) Ebay sellers are just not knowledgeable enough to know if a board is complete. I have called several of them out on boards missing ROMS, transistors, daughter boards, etc. Their replies usually let me know if it is pure ignorance or something more deceptive.

ken
 
Needing a picture of a "complete" non functional boardset is flat out ludicrous.

Because I'm a decent person and would rather get fucked than fuck someone I am PM'ing the seller as we speak and telling him to forget refunding anything because clearly my definiton and Websters definition of "complete" are wrong to KLOV's.
 
Needing a picture of a "complete" non functional boardset is flat out ludicrous.

Because I'm a decent person and would rather get fucked than fuck someone I am PM'ing the seller as we speak and telling him to forget refunding anything because clearly my definiton and Websters definition of "complete" are wrong to KLOV's.

Don't forget to leave him feedback. ;)
 
Item number 1. Suck it up Buttercup.

Item number 2. You got hosed. Complete and Non-working are two totally different things. You thought you had bought complete non-working boardsets not incomplete non-working boardsets. Third party in this deal is also bullshit IMO. Send that junk back for a FULL refund, "not as described".
 
File a paypal dispute assuming you used paypal....if not well.. Not much you can do.
 
Take a chill pill dude. You've added details since your (and mine) original post. Mainly, the fact the seller claimed it was complete. I would tend to agree you deserve a refund based on that, and the seller should oblige.

Yes, I prefer to have pictures of non-working boards. Absolutely!!!
I want to see what chips are missing, what hacks are done, etc. Especially if it is a board with potentially expensive parts that I want to fix instead of for parts.

Example. Gottlieb system 1 cpu. Someone sell non-working board. I don't even consider handing over money until I see the board to make sure the spider chips are at least present. I also want to see the acid damage, and if the game Prom and 5xxx chip is present.

See what I mean? I am thinking you are mainly mad because you overpaid for non-working. You should take a partial and be done with it if the seller won't budge.

Nothing personal dude. You did ask for our opinions.
 
BOOOOoooooring. I guess it's been 2 weeks since the last 'buying/selling "ethics"' thread so we deserve another.
 
Deadly, if you're including what I've said in your last statement, I think you're misreading me a bit, which is probably due to the fact that you didn't originally say "complete". I do think the seller is in the wrong to state complete if it's not. All I'm saying is this situation could have been avoided with a picture. If I were in your shoes I would have asked for a pic to avoid this very situation, unless I already had enough of a relationship with the seller to trust without a pic.
 
There needs to be a "How to" sticky at the top of the For Sale forum. Some of us are more trusting that others and assume certain things that unfortunately shouldn't be assumed.

For example I was burned by a KLOVer a while back. I bought a "Working" Double Dragon PCB only to find out that it had no sound because it was missing the amplifier IC. That IC is hard to come by so now I ask everyone if the sound works. BS I know but that's what you have to do.
 
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